# Question about Washington, D.C. Driving **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 14, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337 "2014-02-14T16:26:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/21 "2014-02-18T13:27:05Z")
I’ve never really noticed a lot of tourists on the road in DC, certainly not during morning rush hour. Mostly, I run into them on the Metro. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/22 "2014-02-18T14:44:28Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’ve never really noticed a lot of tourists on the road in DC, certainly not during morning rush hour. Mostly, I run into them on the Metro. Yeah, I don’t think a lot of tourists are rolling down upper Connecticut Avenue in the AM. I think most the people I see trying to go the wrong way are locals who don’t usually go down that route, or people from the burbs going in to the city for whatever reason. I have a buddy from Rockville who refuses to drive to our house precisely because he’s spooked by the lane changes. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/23 "2014-02-18T15:13:32Z")
The problem with D.C. traffic has little to do with the people who drive in the traffic. Well, it’s part of the problem (like any major city) but the systemic problem is the street design itself. I mean, [take a look at this mess](http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/3151/washingtons-systemic-streets/). Crazy Pierre L’Enfant took a perfectly designed grid system and bollocksed it up by adding traffic circles, squares, and crazy diagonal lines everywhere. Not to mention there’s a great big wide-open space in the middle which is great for Million Man Marches and “I Have A Dream!” and similar stuff, but for commuters, it’s an absolute nightmare to get from one side of the city to the other. The D.C. street plan seriously resembles a series of preschooler doodles, taking what should’ve been efficient and making it as labyrinthine and byzantine as possible. OTOH…well, since D.C. is the seat of government, maybe that’s fitting. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/24 "2014-02-18T16:15:40Z")
The times I’ve driven the wrong way in DC have been when I worked at 15 & L and I usually took the Metro, but drove one day. I went up 15th the wrong way because a block or two of it is one way in the morning and I simply forgot. A couple months ago, I stayed home from work to run some errands. I was driving down Conn. Ave and surprised no one else was joining me in this big wide open lane, then I saw the cars coming at me and thought “oh, right, it’s rush hour.” I think it’s more likely it’s DC drivers who have momentary brain farts who make a mistake, rather than tourists. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/25 "2014-02-18T17:14:22Z")
Cleveland also toyed with having lanes change direction on some streets during rush hour, but it caused too much confusion (and accidents) and had to be abandoned. A pity, because it’s a really logical way of easing rush hour traffic-- Why have all those counter-flow lanes that you’re not using? Cleveland is also unusual among cities in that W. Number Street is not the same as E. Number Street (W. 50 and E. 50 are parallel and about 100 blocks apart, for instance). I was very surprised the first time I saw an East Street turn into a West Street in the middle of a town. All of our east-west avenues have (distinct) names, though, so we don’t have to worry about the letter streets like DC does. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/26 "2014-02-18T17:24:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Cleveland also toyed with having lanes change direction on some streets during rush hour, but it caused too much confusion (and accidents) and had to be abandoned. A pity, because it’s a really logical way of easing rush hour traffic-- Why have all those counter-flow lanes that you’re not using? DC has a few lanes that work that way, but most of them are controlled by barriers. One interstate has a third, separate HOV lane that reverses direction with access controlled by gates. One of the bridges has a lane that switches direction when a special machine moves jersey barriers over.\* There’s a few local roads with lanes that switch direction that are only controlled by lights, but only in a small section. \*[DC Dopers: What that contraption on the Roosevelt Bridge? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=521315) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/27 "2014-02-18T19:25:48Z")
Ah, having actual barriers probably would work better. Carnegie Avenue (the Cleveland street which did this) just had signs hanging over all of the lanes every block or two showing either a red X or a green arrow to indicate what that lane was at that time. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/28 "2014-02-18T20:11:15Z")
Connecticut Avenue in DC has lanes that change direction during rush hour without any barriers. There are signs, and IIRC there are overhanging lights with either a red x or green arrow indicating if the lane is usable. Also parts of 15th and 17th are one way during rush hour, but there are not barriers. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/29 "2014-02-18T20:24:53Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > The problem with D.C. traffic has little to do with the people who drive in the traffic. Well, it’s part of the problem (like any major city) but the systemic problem is the street design itself. > > I mean, [take a look at this mess](http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/3151/washingtons-systemic-streets/). Crazy Pierre L’Enfant took a perfectly designed grid system and bollocksed it up by adding traffic circles, squares, and crazy diagonal lines everywhere… Not so crazy. In fairness, he couldn’t have anticipated motorized conveyances going dozens of mph in every direction all the time. Back in the day of the horse, L’Enfant’s street plan worked just fine. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/30 "2014-02-18T20:30:16Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Not so crazy. In fairness, he couldn’t have anticipated motorized conveyances going dozens of mph in every direction all the time. Back in the day of the horse, L’Enfant’s street plan worked just fine. Yes, and back then, they had no traffic lights. Traffic circles are a great way to handle big intersections in the absence of controls like lights. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/31 "2014-02-18T20:38:30Z")
I like traffic circles, and they are making a comeback in the US (offer does not apply to Dupont Circle, which is a mess). ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/32 "2014-02-18T21:17:23Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I like traffic circles, and they are making a comeback in the US (offer does not apply to Dupont Circle, which is a mess). [Westmoreland Circle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westmoreland_Circle) does not have traffic lights. It connects Maryland and DC, Mass Ave and Western Ave and Dale Carlia parkway. Many drivers don’t have a lot of experience navigating traffic circles that have no lights, and this results in a lot of honking and waving of the Jesus loves you finger. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/33 "2014-02-18T22:06:32Z")
Most circles in DC don’t have lights. Once you learn DC streets, the layout makes a lot of sense. It’s part of why I love DC, it’s a city of nerds who punish those who don’t have our esoteric knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/34 "2014-02-19T00:11:32Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > It could be. But is 30th Ave North and 30th Ave South the same road, just labeled differently once it crosses an east-west street? > > In DC, there are two separate Letter Sts. (running E-W, so NE-NW and SE-SW) and two separate Number Sts. running (N-S, so NW-SW and NE-SE), so there can be potentially four intersections of “X” St. and “#” St., one in each quadrant. Glancing at Google Maps, it looks like 3rd Sts and D Sts qualify. > > I don’t think the other major East Coast cities are like this with two separate sets of streets with the same name (Baltimore, Philly, NYC, and Boston, for example). In NYC, if I tell a cabbie to take me to 86th and 3rd Ave. He knows it’s east of the park and therefore East 86th St. In DC, you’d need to specify which quadrant. > > I was hopefully trying to highlight that, if you’re a tourist in DC and want to go to 3rd and D, there are four of them. In NY you have to go to a different borough to get different names. There are lettered avenues in both Manhattan and Brooklyn, but no one is likely to get them mixed up. Someone who doesn’t know better may tell a cabbie to to to 86th and 3rd, when Aunt Myrtle and Uncle Leo live in Bay Ridge at the bottom of Brooklyn, not the Upper East Side of Manhattan. If you need someone to take you to 101st Street in Bay Ridge, you’d best be sure to give either the cross street or neighborhood, lest you end up way out in Canarsie. I’m used to the number/letter/state system in DC; what I don’t like is the reluctance to use signal lights and the inability or unwillingness to keep traffic signals in sync. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/35 "2014-02-19T01:16:23Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > I was hopefully trying to highlight that, if you’re a tourist in DC and want to go to 3rd and D, there are four of them. And don’t forget to tell tourist that Mt. Rushmore is on J Street. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/36 "2014-02-19T02:11:06Z")
The thread reminds me of going to visit DC for the first time in my life after we had moved away from the area when I was an infant. It was about 10 years later and Dad could still do most of it from memory, including knowing places to parallel park a minivan for a while to do touristy things nearby. That said, these days when I’m in DC I just use the Metro. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/37 "2014-02-19T02:47:19Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > In NY you have to go to a different borough to get different names. There are lettered avenues in both Manhattan and Brooklyn, but no one is likely to get them mixed up. Someone who doesn’t know better may tell a cabbie to to to 86th and 3rd, when Aunt Myrtle and Uncle Leo live in Bay Ridge at the bottom of Brooklyn, not the Upper East Side of Manhattan. If you need someone to take you to 101st Street in Bay Ridge, you’d best be sure to give either the cross street or neighborhood, lest you end up way out in Canarsie. Yeah, hopefully, you know what borough you want. The four 3rd and D Sts. are all within a few blocks of the Capitol. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > And don’t forget to tell tourist that Mt. Rushmore is on J Street. Shit, I still haven’t found J Street… ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/38 "2014-02-19T14:43:08Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Shit, I still haven’t found J Street… It’s right around the block. Keep looking, you’ll find it. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/39 "2014-02-19T16:05:59Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Most circles in DC don’t have lights. Once you learn DC streets, the layout makes a lot of sense. It’s part of why I love DC, it’s a city of nerds who punish those who don’t have our esoteric knowledge. The city is built on a grid. If a street is obstructed, you can cut over to another street, and be on your merry way. I would much rather try driving in DC during rush hour traffic than to have to chance driving in the suburbs where you are truly stuck if you hit traffic. I like the traffic circles, they give a bit of zest to driving here. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337/40 "2014-02-19T16:09:42Z")
> [@Caffeine.addict](#): > > The city is built on a grid. If a street is obstructed, you can cut over to another street, and be on your merry way. Yeah, but this is DC! The street you use to cut to the other street is also obstructed, as is the street you want to cut over to. And the Secret Service has blocked off all of Pennsylvania Ave. - and done so at the end of each street block leading to it rather than the beginning, leaving those on one-way streets with no way of escaping. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-washington-d-c-driving/681337.md?page=3)