Question about weightlifting and nutrition - help an old man out

Factual Questions
21

Any generic unflavored whey protein powder should dissolve in hot or cold water. It’s basically condensed milk powder.

It’s more a matter of taste than solubility.

Try a few powders and see which one tastes least offensive to you. Keep in mind that you usually need several scoops of the stuff, so it may totally change the flavor and texture of your morning coffee if you take it black. It’s less noticeable in a full shake or at least a big latte (which would also have the normal milk proteins; soy milk would also provide substantial protein, but not oat or almond or hemp etc.)

22

I don’t take collagen as my only source of protein though. On top of that I drink a couple of protein shakes a day. Also I don’t take the collagen peptides as a muscle building supplement. My point is more that just like there are collagen peptide supplements that dissolve tastelessly in coffee, I’m guessing there are other proteins like whey that can dissolve tastelessly in coffee too.

23

Lol I should have been more specific. Are any of these soluble in hot water AND dissolve tastelessly?

24

I mean whey inherently has a subtle and neutral flavor. It’s not offensive or particularly noticeable in the intended ratios. But if you add giant scoops of it to a tiny cup of black coffee, you’ll end up with a coffee-flavored lump of wet protein powder.

I don’t think you can concentrate protein powders densely enough so that you can, for example, add a sugar sachet sized serving of it into coffee and get enough protein that way.

As far as I know. Maybe there are distilled amino acid concentrates…?

Otherwise, I think something like a 20 oz latte with just a scoop of protein powder should be OK. Not enough for the whole day, but better than nothing.

25

Most Westerners already get enough protein in their diet. Your body also recycles protein and this is often enough to support muscle growth. Weightlifters may eat more protein for optimal growth and to improve body composition by eating less sugar or fat. If you are looking to get in better shape and lose a little fat, good on you. Eat meat twice a day if so inclined, and don’t stress too much about this issue. Substitute cheese, dairy, soy, eggs, beans, legumes, fish or supplements as needed given the reality of your situation. Even some wraps are high in fiber and protein.

If you need extra protein, ask your trainer about making smoothies and the many available products. Pick one higher in fiber and lower in sugar. Rather than fixate on protein, concentrate on getting enough fiber and eating five servings a day of whole fruit and vegetables, and cut back on sugar if you consume excess amounts.

26

The, admittedly small, study I linked to was using it on top of already having RDA.

Yeah I am skeptical that other protein powders dissolve as well and it is hard to fine ones not flavored.

For your purposes would plain unflavored gelatin work as well, and cost lots less? Yeah once it starts to cool it will have a mouth feel not usually associated with a good coffee but hot it will stay dissolved, and is the same collagen, just cooked instead of hydrolyzed.

My reaction was more based on the trendiness of collagen supplements now. It is marketed as a magic health and beauty product. Bone broth gets that knee jerk from me too, as it is mostly collagen also. There is nothing magical about collagen ingested. It is of course okay that individual foods we eat are incomplete proteins as long as we have a variety over the course of the day or so, but for the purpose of the OP trying to comply with the advice to up protein intake to help with muscle response to strength training, a higher quality complete protein is a better supplemental option. If a supplement is used.

27

While it’s generally true that Westerners get a lot of protein already, it may not be enough in middle age and especially when dealing with a medical condition under the supervised regiment of a personal trainer.

With anything dietary, unfortunately, there are no clear cut answers. But in this particular case, it’s probably better to have a bit more protein than necessary than not enough.

We can argue all day about different recommended daily amounts from different studies and agencies, but at the end of the day, eating a bit more protein may be an inconvenience, but that seems better than not being able to move around freely…? Only the OP can say, I guess.

A registered dietician should be able to give you more up to date info, but it’s probably still not conclusive. Nothing dietary ever is…

28

The OP is “functionally vegetarian” at home. Of course that could be crap highly processed “vegetarian” food, all simple carbs and sugar (I am familiar in particular with teens who are that sort), but one suspects that the vegetables, fruit, and whole grains bit is covered.

Not necessarily. What does it displace? Or is it just extra added on? There are reasoned arguments, your linked cite makes them, to have more than the FDA recommended amount over 50. But the FDA recommended is certainly not risking “not enough”, and fixating needlessly on a bit more than enough risks decreasing other important parts of nutrition or just having excess calories.

29

Collagen is actually a class of proteins used by the body to construct connective and supportive tissues, largely consisting of glycine and lysine (which are ‘essential’ amino acids that humans don’t produce) and proline (a secondary proteinogenic organic acid for which humans can synthesize but mostly rely upon dietary sources). This certainly isn’t the complete set of amino acids but people who primarily eat a modern diet of non-fatty muscle tissue may be deficient in these, especially if they are intensively strength training. The best way to get these is to eat skin (chicken, turkey, salmon, et cetera) and/or bone broth. I know a lot of people do take supplements of these to minimize the fat and carbohydrate content but some cholesteryl esters are actually important in being able to integrate these amnio acids into tissue.

I would agree that a general source of complete proteins for supplementation if the o.p. can’t consume enough protein in whole foods but most animal protein sources are quite dense and don’t require a lot of volume, and also come with a large amount of highly bioavailable nutrients. But for anyone over the age of 50, making certain to get the specific constituents for building collagens≈because the most frequent injuries for older athletes are often breakdown of connective tissue which is, at least in part, due to the lack of impetus and relatively poor nutrition of most modern diets in this regard. Of course, just consuming protein doesn’t build tissues so it is important to do exercises which build up connective tissues, and supplementing with more protein than the body can utilize just results in excreting it which stresses the kidneys.

Again, I think a consult with an exercise nutritionist to formulate a dietary plan that works for the o.p.’s constraints is probably in order rather than to get random advice off the the internet.

Stranger

30

Yeah I’m going to talk to a nutritionist.

31

Some vegetarians still consume a lot of processed food. My advice was meant to be more general rather than just he addressed to the OP. Seeing a nutritionist is not a bad idea if your partner is on board and prepares most of the meals. But it is hard to think of a time when getting supplemental protein was easie for vegetarians. Protein can be overemphasized. Adding a few extra handfuls of nuts or a couple hard boiled eggs to snack on is straightforward.

32

Just a note: Because your question is complex enough that it depends on current knowledge of complex research areas, you might want to look specifically for a registered dietician and not just a nutritionist.

A “nutritionist” is not a license in most jurisdictions, so anybody (including strangers on the internet) can claim to be one. It is not a legally protected term and is a marketing title, not a professional one.

Registered dieticians, on the other hand, require education and licensing.

If cost is an issue, check with your PCP and insurance first and see if you can get that covered.

Otherwise, if you happen to live near a university, sometimes there are dieticians in training who need to fulfill some number of real world hours to gain their certification, and thus want to see clients for free or low cost. They don’t have all the real world experience of practicing dieticians, but might have newer research knowledge (especially about a lot of the veggie stuff that got really popular during covid and with the general fitness trends in the US).

33

There is definitely nothing wrong with seeing a registered dietitian but this really is not so complex.

The OP does not need to try to eat 130 grams of protein a day. They will make significant strength gains with much less based mainly on the exercise they do. And absolutely maximizing muscle gain is not the sole goal of nutrition or even of exercise.

There is a popular trend to fixate on protein. And @Dr_Paprika is 100% correct that the average American diet’s biggest issue is not too little protein, but too little of minimally processed foods high in fiber, phytonutrients, and such. If their “functionally vegetarian” includes a variety of legumes, nuts, and whole grains, supplemented maybe with some plain Greek yogurt and such, along with real vegetables and fruits, and maybe some fish, chicken, or meat on occasion when out of the household, then there is little a registered dietitian should do for them other than compliment them on how much better their choices are than the vast majority of Americans.

34

If you feel confident enough in this assertion, I suppose I’ll just have to take your word for it?

If I were in the OP’s shoes, I would not feel so comfortable, but maybe I’m just more pedantic or risk-averse.

FWIW, I didn’t mean to sidetrack this with an argument on the precise number of g/kg (protein per body weight) that any individual needs. It’s not really about that, but just the general complexity of individual diet planning and changing.

I am not a nutritionist or dietician, just some rando on the internet who happens to be vegan/vegetarian and has read a few confusing and contradicting studies & books with a lot of nuance. And the findings also seem to frequently change over time as new data comes to light and new mindsets replace old superstitions. I’ve seen that cycle repeat itself several times in just the last few decades.

It is not an easy industry / field to keep on top of, because there is so much monied interest clouding everything, including both academic research and government policy/recommendations. It’s really, really hard to tease apart the good advice from the bad from the outright evil propaganda, and that affects all the things we commonly eat, including protein sources like milk, soy, eggs, red meat, chicken, etc. For any one of those, you’ll find many, many studies showing how they’re healthy and unhealthy.

For me personally, this ongoing body of research was enough to convince me that this is not something I can ever make a simple blanket statement on, like “just eat a varied diet with lots of plants and nuts and minimal processing and you’ll be fine”.

I don’t know anyone who really eats that sort of perfect Mediterranean diet on a regular basis to begin with (it’s expensive and IMHO quite difficult in the US and not particularly tasty to a lot of households), so it might start out that way for a few weeks and then soon collapse back into old habits of, I dunno, mac and cheese with fake meat and maybe the occasional sugary teriyaki bowl or whatever. And when you add in an underlying medical condition, middle age, and the vegetarian requirement, the data becomes even more sparse and hard to interpret.

The dietician/nutritionist’s job isn’t just to parrot “Eat food, not too much, mostly plants”, but to understand each client’s individual body, current diet & lifestyle, stressors/nuance (like family preferences out of their individual control), goals, medical considerations, etc. and then come up with an appropriate, realistic, and sustainable set of dietary guidelines and maybe a meal plan around those. It’s the latter two — realistic and sustainable — that’s often a lot more difficult, IMHO, than the “appropriate” part. Anyone can eat perfectly for a couple weeks, maybe a few months. But it gets harder after that as cravings set in, at least until a few months & years in when it’s mostly stabilized and your body and biome have changed accordingly, etc. That’s where professional help can be handy, to make sure you don’t just aim for the perfect diet, fail to keep it, and then fall back to bad habits.

If the OP is already really good at self-discipline and healthy eating, wonderful, they are already vastly better off than most Americans and don’t need to waste time and money talking to a professional. I know I am not that person, myself, and professional coaching was valuable for me (both in terms of a dietician and personal training). YMMV.

35

A blood test will show protein level.

I had three while recovering from surgery. My levels were borderline and the doc added protein shakes to my tray.

Knowing your base level will be helpful later after changing your diet.

I started scrambling 3 eggs (instead of 1) for breakfast for extra protein.

36

You should. That poster is a board certified physician who has advised patients for many decades.

37

You would not want to rely on a blood test to determine your protein needs, since it would be inaccurate for that purpose. In the case of the OP I would consider adding some nuts, cheese, eggs, beans and/or protein smoothies or snacks (including roasted edemame or the plethora of commercial products) as able. If his partner is on board, both of them should see a nutrition expert together (if they prepare the meals) and more info is needed. If not on board, it may be less useful.

Things like protein pancakes are sold at Costco or easy to make with powder. Whole cookbooks are devoted to protein filled meals, many of which focus on plant proteins. Trainers tend to recommend higher amounts, which is not wrong (displacing fats and sugars has done advantages) but is not strictly necessary, or even as effective as just showing up and working hard.

The vast majority of Americans eating whatever diet get enough protein, but the cover of Newsweek never talks about the epidemic of buff muscularity breaking out among the people (unless I missed it).

38

Don’t care if you do or don’t?

Yes every news cycle there are new fads and new studies that one element of the media another excitingly trumpets, and contradictory studies someone else trumpets.

And the average, the standard, American diet is crap.

The variety of approaches that are healthier are legion. We have great evidence that a variety of these approaches are associated with prolonged healthspans, be they the so called “Mediterranean Diet”, or the DASH, or a host of others. All of which have a common thread of being varied diets with lots of plants and legumes/nuts and minimal processing with lots of options around that. The best one of those is the one that the individual will keep up with.

I have absolute, absolute, confidence that a 50 year old man with no major special medical issues who has lost 25 pounds over the last year, is exercising regularly now, and who is eating a (not processed crap version) “functionally vegetarian” nutrition plan, is doing fine.

0.8, 1.4, some point in between grams of protein per kg of body weight? I am positive that there remains no conclusive evidence that any of them will lead to better healthspan, even if “some say” one or the other does.

Huh? First no need to have any sort of perfect diet. There isn’t a “perfect” one anyway. Second if someone was eating in that vein it is pretty inexpensive. Beans and greens/ various other vegetables with whole grains/pasta and occasional fish, chicken, meat, dairy, is very budget friendly. Taste is a matter of taste of course.

Analyzing every gram and worrying about every new media clickable is IMHO being worried well. And it isn’t healthy to worry so much! :grinning_face:

39

That’s helpful (and I didn’t know), thank you!

There, OP, you heard it straight from the doc :slight_smile: That’s worth way more than some internet rando’s words.

40

Meh. As noted in this thread an MD after a name does not justify automatic deference to regarding nutrition advice. There’s bad nutrition information coming from MDs as well as good.