# Question about White Supremist Groups and Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538 "2005-05-05T15:34:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/1 "2005-05-05T15:34:08Z")
How can white supremist groups reconcile their beliefs with Christianity. Years ago, I remember seeing a daytime talk show in which a supremist group (it may have been the KKK, but I don’t remember) was asked by an audience member how they could claim to be Christian but revile the Jews since Christ was one. The members screamed at her not to call their god a “bad name” but didn’t give a concrete answer. My husband, who works in corrections, used to work with gangs in the institution, and white supremists were well represented. He still has a subscription to the _Southern Poverty Lawn Center_ magazine which tracks these groups and reports on their activities. However, none of these have ever answered the question which I have: how can they accept the judeo-Christian belief system, and yet reject Jews? Christ, being a Jew at that time, was not what we’d call a Caucasian-- most likely he was of medium skin tone like people of Arabic descent today. The Bible also refers to the Jews as being the apple of God’s eye-- the chosen people. Do supremists believe that the Bible was somehow altered? That Jesus was a Caucasian, plopped down in the middle of Isreal? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/2 "2005-05-05T15:47:53Z")
Well, mostly it’s because they’ve never _read_ the Bible – if they’ve read anything at all, it’s a part here and a part there, as recommended by a senior a **hole, or tracts or pamphlets or broadsheets prepared by more exalted a** holes. More likely, they just parrot the mouthings of the a\*\*holes they hang with. They know nothing of the true content of Christian thought, nor of Judeo-Christian ethics, they just think of Chistian as being their hereditary religion. [nitpick]They’re called “supremacists”[/nitpick] Oh, and the “Southern Poverty **Lawn** Center”? Man, that’s a _broad_ mission! [snerk] ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/3 "2005-05-05T15:54:27Z")
White supremists deal with Jesus being Jewish the same way Black supremists deal with Cleopatra being Greek - with big piles of denial and ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/4 "2005-05-05T15:56:53Z")
I believe they translate the word for “Jew” in the New Testament as “Judean”. At least, so did the pamphlet someone left on my car a few years back tried to justify it. They have no explanation (that I know of) for why Jesus was circumcized, went to synagogue, kept the Passover, etc. So perhaps their story has a few discrepancies. Some white supremacists claim that the white people are the Chosen Ones of God, instead of the Jews. Or else they just don’t claim to be Christian. I don’t think I could link you to anything that would be work-safe, so no cites. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/5 "2005-05-05T16:15:20Z")
Most of them either deny that Jesus was Jewish, or, more commonly, deny that the Jews in the bible are the same as the Jews now…the “Khazar hypothesis”. Basically, back in the 7th-8th century, this central Asian Turkish tribe called the Khazars converted to Judaism (for a bunch of reasons). Some modern white supremicists claim that all modern Jews are descended from the Khazars (a claim that’s pretty definately false). ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/6 "2005-05-05T16:19:36Z")
They are racist bigots. Why would you expect them to make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/7 "2005-05-05T16:40:45Z")
White supremacists aren’t the only professed Christians who espouse hatred of Jews. Some mainstream Christian teaching has long reviled Jews as “Christ-killers.” The notion of their deserving blame can be pretty well rebuked with facts and logic, but that hasn’t stopped people from embracing the attitude for centuries, and still today. But as others have mentioned, the groups you refer to don’t need but the flimsiest pretext for their beliefs, and they don’t give a rat’s butt whether you think it makes sense or not. Asking them that sort of question with the expectation of an intelligent answer is an exercise in futility. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/8 "2005-05-05T16:43:35Z")
Do you really expect these people to be logically consistent? They’ve chosen a belief system that isn’t based on reality as we know it, yet you expect them to rationally think through their beliefs and correct any illogical thinking? It’s hard enough to get even mainstream religious people to do this. ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/9 "2005-05-05T17:40:14Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Oh, and the “Southern Poverty **Lawn** Center”? Man, that’s a _broad_ mission! [snerk] Motto:Bringing green grass to white trash ---
**Author:** ![Yogurt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/f0a364/32.png) [@Yogurt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yogurt)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/10 "2005-05-05T18:28:32Z")
A common arguement I’ve heard, originally put forth by Hitler I believe, was that Jesus was not technically Jewish because his father was God. How that detracts from his mother’s Judaism I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/11 "2005-05-05T21:19:04Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > [nitpick]They’re called “supremacists”[/nitpick] > > Oh, and the “Southern Poverty **Lawn** Center”? Man, that’s a _broad_ mission! [snerk] Okay, Mr. SmartyPants-- like I didn’t feel bad enough already. I was in a rush this morning before going to work. I noticed right after I hit “post” the errors that I had made. As usual. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/12 "2005-05-05T22:57:28Z")
I think this one belongs in Great Debates. You’ll probably get better answers there. **samclem** GQ moderator ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/13 "2005-05-06T00:18:46Z")
Wait - Semitic people aren’t “what we’d call caucasian?” That’s news to me. (Stipulating of course that race is just a social construction). ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/14 "2005-05-06T01:41:59Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > Wait - Semitic people aren’t “what we’d call caucasian?” That’s news to me. (Stipulating of course that race is just a social construction). [This site](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3958241.stm) says that Jews from that time period were dark-skinned. I’d gander to say that the modern skin tone of the people in the region is a prduct of the different ethnic groups which moved into the region or invaded (like the Romans) and intermarried with the people. > [@Shodan](#): > > Or else they just don’t claim to be Christian. One of the white supremacist groups in the prison in which my husband works worship Odin. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/15 "2005-05-06T02:07:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Some white supremacists claim that the white people are the Chosen Ones of God, instead of the Jews. From [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian\_Identity:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity:) > [@](#): > > Christian Identity asserts that the white Aryan race is God’s chosen race and that whites comprise the ten lost tribes of Israel. There is no single document that expresses this belief system. Adherents interpret the Bible to justify their ideas. > > \ > > Iconoclastic Biblical fundamentalism > > Interpreting the Book of Genesis, many Christian Identity followers assert that Adam and Eve were preceded by other, lesser races, identified as “the beasts of the field” (Gen. 1:25). Eve was seduced by the snake (Satan) and gave birth to two seed lines: Cain, the direct descendant of Satan and Eve, and Abel, who was of good Aryan stock through Adam. Cain then became the progenitor of the Jews in his subsequent matings with the non-Adamic races. This is referred to as the two-seedline doctrine. There are other interpretations within Christian Identity. > > Christian Identity adherents believe the Jews are predisposed to carry on a conspiracy against the Adamic seed line and today have achieved almost complete control of the earth. (Kaplan, Radical Religion in America) The rest of the article is even scarier. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/16 "2005-05-06T04:57:51Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > One of the white supremacist groups in the prison in which my husband works worship Odin. Which makes no sense either considering that the Norse/Teutons had their own Adam and Eve myth having all humanity descended from two parents. Another story explains the class structure (nobles, merchants, serfs) as being the fate of the descendents of one of the gods (I can’t remember if it was Odin, Frey, or Heimdall) and the three different houses who took him in. While one could argue that members of a certain races were the descendents meant to be serfs, following the rules of the myth those people would always be serfs. EG If blacks are meant to be slaves and servants, there’s no way Oprah could have defied the will of the Aesir and Vanir and become wealthy and the head of her own corporation. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/17 "2005-05-06T09:32:08Z")
How can one expect logic from ANY group that claims to be the chosen people of God? White Supremacists, Zionists, Nation of Islam, they’re all pretty damn ridiculous. Then again, I think anyone that claims animals are not intelligent is of the same ilk. So don’t mind me. Erek ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/18 "2005-05-06T11:46:41Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Most of them either deny that Jesus was Jewish, or, more commonly, deny that the Jews in the bible are the same as the Jews now…the “Khazar hypothesis”. > > Basically, back in the 7th-8th century, this central Asian Turkish tribe called the Khazars converted to Judaism (for a bunch of reasons). Some modern white supremicists claim that all modern Jews are descended from the Khazars (a claim that’s pretty definately false). Oh, so thats what he was on about… To explain… I dont have much time before work so may have to continue later. Soem racist was posting all sorts of anti-semetic garbage like this to a website (atheist one). He claimed to be atheist but posted stuff like this about jews. He also went on about how they are ‘controlling the media and trying to take over the world’ etc etc. One thing I wanted to ask Jewish dopers sometime is about some of his claims on what the various books of the Torah said. Maybe I’ll start a new topic on this later… but essentially apparently a few scripture type books say horrid things about Christians etc… I’m wondering what these books really say. one of them I remember was called Avodah Torah, although the barely literate racists kept spelling it wrong lol. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/19 "2005-05-06T14:42:43Z")
> [@BrianJ4](#): > > Maybe I’ll start a new topic on this later… but essentially apparently a few scripture type books say horrid things about Christians etc… I’m wondering what these books really say. one of them I remember was called Avodah Torah, although the barely literate racists kept spelling it wrong lol. You’ll find lists going around titled things like “What the Talmud really says!” which claim to have passages from the Talmud that claim it’s ok for Jews to rape three year olds, or cheat non-Jews, or whatever. You can find people debunking the lists in detail, but basically, when you see a list out there, the quotes are either taken out of context, or just made up entirely. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538/20 "2005-05-06T16:19:44Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Another story explains the class structure (nobles, merchants, serfs) as being the fate of the descendents of one of the gods (I can’t remember if it was Odin, Frey, or Heimdall) and the three different houses who took him in. Heimdall, aka Rig, sired the race of thralls (slaves), the race of carls (yeomen), and the race of jarls (nobles). [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimdall](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimdall) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-white-supremist-groups-and-christianity/302538.md?page=2)