# Question for anti gun people? home defense? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475 "2019-02-13T17:00:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/181 "2019-02-15T00:35:24Z")
Yet, we have some Law Enforcement professionals who fire in a blind panic and occasionally shoot each other instead of the bad guys. I imagine it looking like this. [Sergeant Jeffords Shooting - Brooklyn Nine-nine GIF - Brooklyn Nine Nine Terry Crews Terry Jeffords - Discover & Share GIFs](https://tenor.com/view/brooklyn-nine-nine-terry-crews-terry-jeffords-gun-shoot-gif-3854672) ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/182 "2019-02-15T00:55:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My wife and I own a gun right now. We plan to have kids. Once we have kids, we’re gonna have to figure out whether there’s a way to own guns safely such that the chance of one of the kids being hurt or killed by the gun is less than their chance of being killed by an intruder (i.e. is a top-notch gun safe enough for this?), or whether this isn’t possible and we’re better off getting rid of them. . Number does not compute. You own a gun or guns? Them or it? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/183 "2019-02-15T01:00:42Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Number does not compute. You own a gun or guns? Them or it? ‘Them’ is a gender-neutral singular pronoun, you know. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/184 "2019-02-15T01:18:30Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Can you? Do you have the will to close to blood-spatter range with your opponent and use that bat to inflict serious, possibly lethal, injury on hir? Have you practiced its use indoors? Or, do you just have a bat somewhere as kind of a woobie to hold if you hear a noise that scares you? Impact weapons require strength, skill, and courage to use effectively against an unknown, possibly armed, opponent. Do you qualify? You forgot to mention, bats are only effective at a very specific range. Not just not too far away, but also not too close. I can count four times in my life I’ve been threatened with one , 3 of them I simply took the bat. The fourth became a grappling match because I’m not dumb enough to stand 3-4’ away from someome with a bat while they wind up a swing …inside of that range your bat is less than useless. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/185 "2019-02-15T01:41:21Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Question: Lets say your at home and someone is outside trying to break down your door and get in to either rob or hurt you. Yes, you can and should dial 911 (assuming your phone is working) but you need protection NOW. > > What would you do since you dont own a firearm? I am not a small person and I served 8 years in the Army, so I would probably sit my fat ass on the front door with the baseball bat I keep on hand for such situations. 9 times out of 10, the intruder will exit the premises when they sense resistance and they know the police are enroute. In that slender 10% case where they aren’t dissuaded by the odds, I’ll shove the baseball bat up their ass. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/186 "2019-02-15T01:49:59Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > You forgot to mention, bats are only effective at a very specific range. Not just not too far away, but also not too close. > > I can count four times in my life I’ve been threatened with one , 3 of them I simply took the bat. The fourth became a grappling match because I’m not dumb enough to stand 3-4’ away from someome with a bat while they wind up a swing …inside of that range your bat is less than useless. Bats. _pfft_ [This is what I have next to my bed.](http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=600652&name=Medieval+Bar+Mace) ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/187 "2019-02-15T01:50:37Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m in a similar position. With each school/mall/theater/etc shooting I move further into the “anti-gun” camp, and yet I own several firearms. > > After calling 911 I might be waiting 30 minutes or more for response. I’d probably position myself in a room where I have a clear line of fire, take some deep breaths, and prepare to possibly kill another human being if forced to. > **[Why Don’t School Shootings Happen In The ‘Hood’? - The Source](https://thesource.com/2018/02/23/why-dont-school-shootings-happen-in-the-hood/)** > > Why don't school shootings occur in the 'hood'? A question which has circulated around social media since the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida. The incident left 17 students dead and 14 wounded after 19-year old, Nikolas... I guess we’re just too good to look to the ghetto for answers ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/188 "2019-02-15T02:05:49Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Are you strong enough to raise a 2 oz can of pepper spray and push the button? I doubt my son could handle the recoil after firing any pistol. Pepper spray is a joke. During riot training with army national guard, the strongest pepper spray that the prison guards brought discouraged 4 out of 50 soldiers who were acting as rioters and their only motivation was just to pretend. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/189 "2019-02-15T03:11:53Z")
In order to be certified in their use as a deputy sheriff, I was both pepper sprayed and tazed. While both were painfulish, neither was something I would depend on absent another deputy sheriff, or two, with firearms as backup. I don’t care if you want to own firearms or not. Don’t want any? Don’t buy any. If you are going to proudly state your moral superiority bssed on using a bat or spray or whatever doesn’t go bang, I expect you to have some realistic idea of how to use it effectively if I am supposed to take you seriously. If it is just about you being a better perso because…ew…guns, then bless your little heart. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/190 "2019-02-15T04:20:24Z")
My main takeaway from this thread is that the USA has an violent crime problem, so as I posted above it seems to me that to have a better society the goal should be to reduce the amount of violent crime so that the citizenry don’t need to live in constant fear. One poster has been in _four_ separate encounters against at least one assailant armed with a baseball bat. I think I might start a poll in IMHO on this, I’m kind of curious about how commonplace this is for Americans. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/191 "2019-02-15T05:21:52Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Dude! You have a perimeter alarm? Really? Seriously? Yes, seriously. It’s not uncommon here. > [@](#): > > How does that even work? Deer, raccoons, turkey, dogs, etc would constantly set off any perimeter alarm I can imagine setting up around our home. Infrared motion detectors, and they’re calibrated not to be set off by small animals. Deer and larger animals are not a concern in my city. Plus, I have a wall. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/192 "2019-02-15T05:57:00Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > Pepper spray is a joke. During riot training with army national guard, the strongest pepper spray that the prison guards brought discouraged 4 out of 50 soldiers who were acting as rioters and their only motivation was just to pretend. I bartended when two cops were called in to break up a fight, pepper spray was used and the rookie sprayed the other officer in the face. I wish to assure you, the veteran cop was worthless for half an hour. Johnny Knoxville got his start filmed while receiving the effects of non lethal weapons on assailants. He flat out says pepper spray is by far the most effective for range, accuracy and pain. I don’t know what your training experience was like. Perhaps you’d like to purchase a 1/2 oz can for $7 at your local Fleet Farm and spray yourself in the face with it and tell us how useless it is. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/193 "2019-02-15T07:10:34Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And by far the best way to prevent burglary is to install a home alarm system. Homes with alarm systems are 300% less likely to be burglarized. Have a cite for that? Not that its anything to with the OP, but all the numbers I’ve seen say the opposite. Its one of the classic examples of “correlation does not equal causation” houses in areas that have a lot of breaks are much more likely to get a burglar alarm (even more so for houses that have in fact been broken into), so I thought the existence of a burglar alarm in a house is strongly correlated with that house having been broken into. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/194 "2019-02-15T07:18:11Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > In order to be certified in their use as a deputy sheriff, I was both pepper sprayed and tazed. While both were painfulish, neither was something I would depend on absent another deputy sheriff, or two, with firearms as backup. I don’t care if you want to own firearms or not. Don’t want any? Don’t buy any. If you are going to proudly state your moral superiority bssed on using a bat or spray or whatever doesn’t go bang, I expect you to have some realistic idea of how to use it effectively if I am supposed to take you seriously. If it is just about you being a better perso because…ew…guns, then bless your little heart. Moral superiority requires I THINK I am better than you. I sincerely do not. I believe my course of action is more rational and more likely to produce a positive outcome. You can disagree. And you have. So we appear to be cool. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/195 "2019-02-15T07:34:55Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Have a cite for that? Not that its anything to with the OP, but all the numbers I’ve seen say the opposite. The actual statistic I’ve seen around the net is the [inverse](https://www.consumersadvocate.org/home-security/home-burglary-stats-and-facts) - homes _without_ security systems are 300% _more_ likely to be burgled. But the origin for that number isn’t cited in what seems to be the [original](https://www.alarms.org/burglary-statistics/) source for it. And the correlation you imagine doesn’t always hold - the places with the most crime often are places where people can’t _afford_ alarms. Having an alarm is a routine middle+ class thing in South Africa, for instance, but isn’t correlated at all to actual break-ins. _Everyone_ has one. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/196 "2019-02-15T07:46:36Z")
The more I read this thread the better I feel about living in Munich. Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/197 "2019-02-15T09:06:47Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I took tae kwon do for several years when I was a teenager. My instructor would regularly get asked, “what’s the best move if someone comes at you with a knife (or a gun)?” His preferred answer was “the thousand-step move,” which he would then illustrate by turning and sprinting. Very wise. Generally, if the attacker has a gun, do what he/she says. If it’s just money, then give it. Your chances of disarming somebody with a gun, especially a pistol, are really not good outside of Hollywood. And you need to get out of the danger zone very fast if the attacker has a gun. Most likely, not fast enough. There are tactics to fend off somebody with a knife, but you are likely to get hurt sooner or later. Now for the bit that gets the pro-gun crowd in a twist. The attacker is coming throuh the window to rape you / your sister / wife / mother / pet goldfish. There are options other than your car keys or a gun, dear crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/198 "2019-02-15T11:00:51Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > My main takeaway from this thread is that the USA has an violent crime problem, so as I posted above it seems to me that to have a better society the goal should be to reduce the amount of violent crime so that the citizenry don’t need to live in constant fear. Speaking as an American who has been a target of Bad Guys I wholeheartedly agree that reducing violent crime, with the added benefit of reducing fear, is the best goal we could have. That said - we have to survive in the meanwhile. My preference is to run away. But… if I can run I want to be able to defend myself. Oddly enough, I (and my household) have managed to do that without having an arsenal of firearms on hand. I’m not anti-gun, but I think far too many people think _just_ about guns and not other ways of keeping themselves (and their loved ones, and even their stuff) safe. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/199 "2019-02-15T12:51:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Speaking as an American who has been a target of Bad Guys I wholeheartedly agree that reducing violent crime, with the added benefit of reducing fear, is the best goal we could have. > > That said - we have to survive in the meanwhile. > > My preference is to run away. But… if I can run I want to be able to defend myself. Oddly enough, I (and my household) have managed to do that without having an arsenal of firearms on hand. I’m not anti-gun, but I think far too many people think _just_ about guns and not other ways of keeping themselves (and their loved ones, and even their stuff) safe. I can understand and respect that point of view. If I were repeatedly the victim of a violent crime, then I think I might reach a point where I would say “That’s it. I’m arming myself.” Technically my home is armed in that I have about a two dozen or so martial arts melee weapons but I don’t consider myself armed in the traditional sense. I.e. I own these weapon because I train with them and I like them, not for the purpose of defense, although I would feel very badly for any intruder who came in here without a firearm. So in the poll thread on the number of times a person has been the victim of a violent crime, currently zero is leading by a lot. Three times the sum of all the other options, which are “1”,“2”,“3”,“4 or more”. It is far too early in the morning for me to conjecture what that means vis a vis this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/200 "2019-02-15T13:11:23Z")
I only got burgled once, and that was while I was living in Germany. Seems that a top floor apartment is more vulnerable, nobody is likely to come that far up the stairs. The apartment was in two parts with two doors, due to a quirk of history, and the perps went into the room being used as a storeroom after forcing the lock. The door frame was wood, and too thin and flimsy. I was not there at the time and only found out about it when I came home. All I lost was a pair of cufflinks. The office I worked in was burgled twice, both times in the Christmas holidays. Again, nobody was there. The second time we found an abandoned bag with two flat screen monitors, evidently the perps heard a noise in the building and ran for it out the back. I had nothing of value in my office and lost nothing. Unless somebody is breaking in with intent to do you harm, an intruder just wants to grab some cash or jewelry and clear out fast. They don’t want to meet anybody. They are often deterred if they think there is someone at home. One recommendation is to have music playing, loudly. We also used one of those fake TV devices while our house was unoccupied. The flashing is a bit too regular, but the house never got done. Now we have a (real) video surveillance system as part of a smart house system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475.md?page=11)