# Question for anti gun people? home defense? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475 "2019-02-13T17:00:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/161 "2019-02-14T19:57:48Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Speaking from experience I can say the chances of that situation ending peacefully we’re very slim indeed if I had a gun. There is not a lot of rational consideration going at 3am when a random guy appears at your bedroom door. Good point, and one to consider when giving someone a license to carry a gun around. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/162 "2019-02-14T21:27:42Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > … The most likely outcome if I had a gun would have been I killed someone. I don’t think this is true. The vast majority of defensive gun uses do not result in a fatality. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/163 "2019-02-14T22:03:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think this is true. The vast majority of defensive gun uses do not result in a fatality. I don’t believe that you’re capable of assessing his psychology over the internet. If he tells me that if he owned a gun for self defense and felt compelled to reach for it when surprised in the dark at three AM he’d use it, I believe him. No matter how inconvenient it is to you. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/164 "2019-02-14T22:06:57Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Only about 1 in 4 burglaries occur when someone is home. Of those, only 1 in 4 actually leads to a confrontation. That still sound scary, **but 65% of the time, the burglar knew the victim** – it’s very rare for this to be a “home invasion gone wrong” scenario. And by far the best way to prevent burglary is to install a home alarm system. Homes with alarm systems are 300% less likely to be burglarized. Bolding mine. I don’t see why knowledge of the victim is relevant. It can still certainly be dangerous. 100% of domestic violence victims know their assailant. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/165 "2019-02-14T22:09:06Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I don’t believe that you’re capable of assessing his psychology over the internet. If he tells me that if he owned a gun for self defense and felt compelled to reach for it when surprised in the dark at three AM he’d use it, I believe him. No matter how inconvenient it is to you. It’s got nothing to do with his psychology. It’s a matter of statistics. The vast majority of DGUs do not result in a fatality. ETA: And there’s nothing particularly “inconvenient” about it for me. Do you think having two fewer meth-head thieves in this country would make me sad? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/166 "2019-02-14T22:19:40Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Question: Lets say your at home and someone is outside trying to break down your door and get in to either rob or hurt you. Yes, you can and should dial 911 (assuming your phone is working) but you need protection NOW. > > What would you do since you dont own a firearm? Hasn’t happened to me yet. While we are talking hypotheticals, what would you do if your phone wasn’t working and your 8 year old son shot and killed your 5 yr old daughter with the gun you keep for self defense? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/167 "2019-02-14T22:21:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s got nothing to do with his psychology. It’s a matter of statistics. The vast majority of DGUs do not result in a fatality. Firstly, statistics don’t work that way. That’s like saying “most people are right handed, so when you say you’re left handed, you must be lying.” And secondly I think the vast majority of DGUs are when some douchenozzle waves his gun at somebody who wasn’t a threat, who then runs off because a deranged maniac waved a gun at him. I had a gun and wasn’t harmed! Defensive gun use! Second amendment! Yay! I’m pretty sure most DGUs don’t take place when some half-awake freaked-out person is surprised in the dark by a scary burglar - explicitly because if they were, there would be more fatalities. Unless the argument is that the freaked out half-asleep gun owners are such terrible shots that they tend to miss, which I suppose is possible. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > ETA: And there’s nothing particularly “inconvenient” about it for me. Do you think having two fewer meth-head thieves in this country would make me sad? I think your reading comprehension is better than this. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/168 "2019-02-14T22:26:21Z")
I actually had a scenario like this once. Living in a dicey neighborhood at the time, heard noises from downstairs. Simply yelling: “Oh GAWD. PLEASE DON"T MAKE ME KILL…AGAIN.” took care of the problem. Heard mad scramble for the door, called the cops, told them what I did. They laughed their asses off. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/169 "2019-02-14T22:29:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think this is true. The vast majority of defensive gun uses do not result in a fatality. I can’t see surviving a shot at the center of the body from across the room. Do those statistics include the defensive gun not being fired? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/170 "2019-02-14T22:46:24Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Bolding mine. > > I don’t see why knowledge of the victim is relevant. It can still certainly be dangerous. 100% of domestic violence victims know their assailant. The point is that your house being invaded by people known to you probably isn’t a random occurrence, and there’s a pretty good chance you did something to invite trouble. It might have been something innocuous, since even good people might be related to assholes, but a decent percentage of the time, you are being invaded by your asshole acquaintances because you yourself are an asshole. Drug dealers, for example, get robbed a lot, but if you are choosing to live what they call a “high-risk lifestyle,” then the problems you encounter aren’t really analogous to those faced by random householders who have made different choices. It’s not the level of danger but why you’re in that danger that is relevant. Teasing out from the statistics those who face acquaintance robbery through no fault of their own from those who face acquaintance robbery because the whole neighborhood knows they keep a good stash of heroin in the house is hard to do, however. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/171 "2019-02-14T22:57:24Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > The point is that your house being invaded by people known to you probably isn’t a random occurrence, and there’s a pretty good chance you did something to invite trouble. It might have been something innocuous, since even good people might be related to assholes, but a decent percentage of the time, you are being invaded by your asshole acquaintances because you yourself are an asshole. Drug dealers, for example, get robbed a lot, but if you are choosing to live what they call a “high-risk lifestyle,” then the problems you encounter aren’t really analogous to those faced by random householders who have made different choices. It’s not the level of danger but why you’re in that danger that is relevant. Teasing out from the statistics those who face acquaintance robbery through no fault of their own from those who face acquaintance robbery because the whole neighborhood knows they keep a good stash of heroin in the house is hard to do, however. OK. But even assholes have the right to self-preservation. When I took the class for my CC permit, we were told that you should never point a weapon at anyone unless you felt your life was in danger (and this is in a hard red, castle doctrine loving state). I don’t see what statistics need to be “teased out”. Not trying to be obtuse. Maybe I missed your point. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/172 "2019-02-14T22:59:02Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Homes with alarm systems are 300% less likely to be burglarized. Nitpick: 100% less likely would mean 0% chance of being burglarized, and that’s as low as you can go. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/173 "2019-02-14T23:00:36Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Nitpick: 100% less likely would mean 0% chance of being burglarized, and that’s as low as you can go. Burglars start breaking in and leaving other people’s stuff in your house, at twice the frequency they were taking it before. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/174 "2019-02-14T23:03:24Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > OK. But even assholes have the right to self-preservation. When I took the class for my CC permit, we were told that you should never point a weapon at anyone unless you felt your life was in danger (and this is in a hard red, castle doctrine loving state). I don’t see what statistics need to be “teased out”. I think it has to do with someone trying to decide how likely they are to be a victim of a robbery. If you live in a typical house in a generic subdivision, your risk might be different than someone who deals drugs or someone who has a lot more wealth than their neighbors. If you look at just the raw stats, you may think that all houses have the same probability of being robbed. But robbers don’t pick houses randomly from all houses in the country. Certain houses will have much higher probabilities of being robbed and others will be lower. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/175 "2019-02-14T23:09:11Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So… without looking too deep into this, [a guy on Quora](https://www.quora.com/How-likely-is-one-to-be-a-victim-of-a-home-invasion-Is-home-defense-a-valid-reason-to-have-a-loaded-firearm) calculated that your lifetime odds in the USA of being the victim of a home invasion is about double that of your lifetime risk of being struck by lightning. Most people will suffer exactly zero home invasions in their entire lives. Compared to other dangers like house fires (how many of you have a fire extinguisher in the home?), you’re just not that likely to be a victim of this crime. Hmm… well, the home I lived in WAS struck by lightning on one occasion, but the lightning rod did its job and we were OK. And we had two attempted home invasions so… yeah, that matches statistics. I actually DO have a fire extinguisher in my home… and it was used on one occasion to put out the fire on the roof. Yes, I’ve had a somewhat eventful life, which is why I also have smoke detectors, CO detectors, fire extinguisher… I do not, at this point, own a gun although before I moved to my current location I had thought about it. YMMV and I fully understand that my experience is not typical. > [@](#): > > [Given that having a gun in the home greatly increases your risk of attempting and completing suicide, I think I’ll gladly roll those dice. If someone breaks into my home with the intent of harming me or my loved ones… Well, shit. Sucks to be me. Given I’m not now nor have ever been suicidal that’s not a consideration for me… but because we _did_ have family members with that problem when I was young that was exactly the reason there were no guns in the home while I was growing up. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/176 "2019-02-14T23:10:57Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I don’t believe that you’re capable of assessing his psychology over the internet. If he tells me that if he owned a gun for self defense and felt compelled to reach for it when surprised in the dark at three AM he’d use it, I believe him. No matter how inconvenient it is to you. Yeah I am telling you, if I had a gun then I would have used it. I would have time to take it out of the bedstand and load it (I distinctly remember having time to think about what to do, at the time it seemed like half an hour, it was less than that I’m sure, but enough). I don’t know the survival rate is for several rounds fired at 6-8 feet away but its not that high, even for a cack-handed numpty such as myself. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/177 "2019-02-14T23:45:00Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > OK. But even assholes have the right to self-preservation. When I took the class for my CC permit, we were told that you should never point a weapon at anyone unless you felt your life was in danger (and this is in a hard red, castle doctrine loving state). I don’t see what statistics need to be “teased out”. > > Not trying to be obtuse. Maybe I missed your point. If you’re dealing meth out of your living room, then you stand an excellent chance of facing violence, but counting a home invasion at your house as though it were a random event distorts the statistics on how likely any given house will be invaded. For example, earlier in the thread, somebody posted that of the 3.7 million residential burglaries in the U.S. annually between 2003 and 2007, only about one in four happened when someone is home, and only about one of four of those resulted in a confrontation, and in about two-thirds of those, the burglar and the victim knew each other. If we assume that the acquaintance is irrelevant, then about 231,000 times a year the OP’s scenario will happen. Divided by the 126 million households in the U.S., that translates to a one in 500 chance that a random household will face that situation in any given year. If we discount all acquaintance robberies as being the bitter fruit of lifestyle choices, then the chance for a random household goes down to something like 1 in 1500. Probably, the truth is somewhere in the middle, and teasing out what proportion of acquaintance robberies are the result of life choices allows a more accurate understanding of what risks an ordinary law-abiding citizen really faces. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/178 "2019-02-14T23:49:22Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > If you’re dealing meth out of your living room, then you stand an excellent chance of facing violence, but counting a home invasion at your house as though it were a random event distorts the statistics on how likely any given house will be invaded. > > For example, earlier in the thread, somebody posted that of the 3.7 million residential burglaries in the U.S. annually between 2003 and 2007, only about one in four happened when someone is home, and only about one of four of those resulted in a confrontation, and in about two-thirds of those, the burglar and the victim knew each other. > > If we assume that the acquaintance is irrelevant, then about 231,000 times a year the OP’s scenario will happen. Divided by the 126 million households in the U.S., that translates to a one in 500 chance that a random household will face that situation in any given year. If we discount all acquaintance robberies as being the bitter fruit of lifestyle choices, then the chance for a random household goes down to something like 1 in 1500. Probably, the truth is somewhere in the middle, and teasing out what proportion of acquaintance robberies are the result of life choices allows a more accurate understanding of what risks an ordinary law-abiding citizen really faces. And even that math fails to account for the region and economic state thereof. There are certainly areas that suffer worse or are even safer. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/179 "2019-02-14T23:56:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, I’m not “happy” about it. I wish everyone was better trained. But there’s this myth among gun control activists that police are something like steely-eyed professionals that never miss, and therefore we can trust them to handle all of society’s violent confrontations and the rest of us just can’t be trusted to not shoot ourselves in the foot. [It’s not true](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNa5n2I_DUw). Adrenaline is the great equalizer. Only the most depraved psychopath is somewhat immune to its effects. I spent a career in the military and trained extensively with small arms, qualifying expert on all of them. I also worked with a police department. But to paraphrase Bruce Lee: targets don’t shoot back; and I am under no illusion as to how rationally I would behave in a home invasion scenario. In a stressful situation, even Marines and Seals are going to be pumping the go juice big time, let alone a cop or a homeowner who thinks he’s the baddest dude on the block. Prudent home security measures are the first and best line of defense. Alarms, locks, dogs, and an escape plan will likely serve you better than a 12 gauge. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475/180 "2019-02-15T00:13:21Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I am under no illusion as to how rationally I would behave in a home invasion scenario. In a stressful situation, even Marines and Seals are going to be pumping the go juice big time, let alone a cop or a homeowner who thinks he’s the baddest dude on the block. > > Prudent home security measures are the first and best line of defense. Alarms, locks, dogs, and an escape plan will likely serve you better than a 12 gauge. I’ve been through some actual events, some of which involved guns and some not, and have been calm and deliberate every time. The adrenaline came, but didn’t overwhelm me, because I didn’t allow it to and am not prone to panicking. It was only AFTER the events that the amount of adrenaline in my blood stream proved troublesome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-anti-gun-people-home-defense/829475.md?page=10)