# Question for British Dopers re: anti-terrorism measures
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [March 25, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702 "2009-03-25T03:17:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/1 "2009-03-25T03:17:15Z")
This morning, Boing Boing reported this [story](http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/24/london-cops-reach-ne.html) regarding the police asking people to look through their neighbor’s trash and report any strange items and also, to monitor people looking at CCTV cameras also.
I am wondering what the reaction of the average britisher is to these measures. I know (or think I know) that there would be a considerable uproar here in the states if something like this happened (and it did shortly after 9/11/2001).
Bob
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/2 "2009-03-25T05:57:48Z")
Generally people just see these adverts for the nonsense they are.
Mind you, I don’t see anything advocating searching through neighbour’s bins.
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### Author:  [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/3 "2009-03-25T07:14:48Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#):
>
> Generally people just see these adverts for the nonsense they are.
>
> Mind you, I don’t see anything advocating searching through neighbour’s bins.
In the first poster it says ‘These chemicals won’t be used in a bomb because a neighbour reported the dumped containers’ which suggests you’d have to go through the rubbish to find them.
While I am deeply concerned over the general erosion of civil liberties, this is an example of how far the state should be allowed to go in implementing measures to prevent a potential terrorist attack. And what control we have over the state to stop them using what could be seen as excessive measures. In this way Al-Qaeda have weakened Western society, by requiring us to use potentially draconian means to guard against their methods.
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### Author:  [@scareyfaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scareyfaerie)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/4 "2009-03-25T13:57:08Z")
> [@urban1z](#):
>
> I am wondering what the reaction of the average britisher is to these measures.
If they’re anything like me, they’ll laugh about it, forward the story to their friends, and start wondering what other bits of nonsense they will come up with next.
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### Author:  [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/5 "2009-03-25T14:38:48Z")
> [@urban1z](#):
>
> I am wondering what the reaction of the average britisher is to these measures.
I think :rolleyes: would sum it up pretty nicely. More authoritarian pointless crap from the powers that be. There’s a pretty decent article about it [here](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/24/police_ad/) and the reader comments give you a pretty representative opinon sample.
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/6 "2009-03-25T17:49:45Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#):
>
> In the first poster it says ‘These chemicals won’t be used in a bomb because a neighbour reported the dumped containers’ which suggests you’d have to go through the rubbish to find them.
…if it wasn’t accompanied by a photo of them dumped visibly, in sight of a public place.
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### Author:  [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/7 "2009-03-25T17:54:59Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#):
>
> …if it wasn’t accompanied by a photo of them dumped visibly, in sight of a public place.
Yes, and the person who dumped them there was picked up CCTV wearing a T shirt with ‘I Am A Terrorist’ emblazoned on it. 😛
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### Author:  [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/8 "2009-03-25T19:41:08Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#):
>
> …if it wasn’t accompanied by a photo of them dumped visibly, in sight of a public place.
Yeah. You’d hardly need to go through someone’s trash to see that.
That article about those posters (that I haven’t seen anywhere in real life) is more hysterical than the posters themselves.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/9 "2009-03-25T19:53:33Z")
> [@urban1z](#):
>
> This morning, Boing Boing reported this [story](http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/24/london-cops-reach-ne.html) regarding the police asking people to look through their neighbor’s trash and report any strange items and also, to monitor people looking at CCTV cameras also…
Does anyone else think this is a great excuse for a **Keeping up Appearences** special? 😉
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### Author:  [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/10 "2009-03-25T20:18:24Z")
> [@urban1z](#):
>
> I am wondering what the reaction of the average britisher is to these measures.
We take no notice, sigh once again at the fact that we have idiots in government wasting our money, and patiently count the days until the next general election when we will at long last be given the chance to express the full extent of our love for The Glorious Leader (non-elected) and his Newspeak drones.
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### Author:  [@Lungfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lungfish)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/11 "2009-03-25T20:39:18Z")
El Gordo also wants to keeps tabs on our activities regarding social networking sites in addition to phones calls and e-mails made and web sites visited: [Social network sites ‘monitored’](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7962631.stm).
The Great British Public don’t give a toss about the erosion of their rights, freedoms and liberties taken from us by politicians in the name of fighting crime in general and against terrorism in particular.
The sooner we have a General Election the better. I somehow don’t think that is going to happen this year cos they will lose. Next year, early May is my guess for the date of the General Election. Then the Tories will be in power and they are no different from the Labour Party.
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### Author:  [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/12 "2009-03-25T21:06:13Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#):
>
> Does anyone else think this is a great excuse for a **Keeping up Appearences** special? 😉
There is no excuse for a Keeping Up Appearances special.
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/13 "2009-03-25T21:22:56Z")
> [@Ximenean](#):
>
> There is no excuse for a Keeping Up Appearances special.
Absolutley. Anybody suggesting one should be shopped to the Met on the relevant phone number. Adverts in tube stations will be appearing soon.
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### Author:  [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/14 "2009-03-25T22:31:07Z")
> [@Lungfish](#):
>
> El Gordo also wants to keeps tabs on our activities regarding social networking sites in addition to phones calls and e-mails made and web sites visited: [Social network sites ‘monitored’](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7962631.stm).
>
> The Great British Public don’t give a toss about the erosion of their rights, freedoms and liberties taken from us by politicians in the name of fighting crime in general and against terrorism in particular.
I’m not sure I agree with that. It’s hard to say either way, though, isn’t it? I mean, none of my friends think the erosion of such rights is fine and dandy, but that’s a selective example. However, even the Mail doesn’t seem to support most of these erosions (they only support the ones against foreigners and people on benefits).
> [@](#):
>
> The sooner we have a General Election the better. I somehow don’t think that is going to happen this year cos they will lose. Next year, early May is my guess for the date of the General Election. Then the Tories will be in power and they are no different from the Labour Party.
The first sentence of that paragraph is in conflict with the rest.
> [@Ximenean](#):
>
> There is no excuse for a Keeping Up Appearances special.
Never. Then we will truly know that the terrorists have won.
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### Author:  [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/15 "2009-03-25T23:59:58Z")
You would have to admit that, though, that we’ve gone a long way down the road of surveillance and potential government intrusion into our lives without putting up much resistance. I don’t know if we’re just too passive on the whole - the widespread outrage at the Iraq war would perhaps argue against this, or if it was the dropwise way in which these impositions have been introduced making it hard to rally around one particular issue.
I think we could learn a lot from Americans and their attitudes towards things like gun control, tbh. You take a look at a gun control thread on this board, for example, and they’re seldom a thing of beauty. It’s wall to wall arseholes, if we’re being honest. A mile and a half of dickheads talking past one another. But that level of intrangience is what it takes to protect certain civil liberties. It’s hard to imagine the American public tolerating the level of CCTV, or even open CTV or whatever the latest thing is called nowadays, in their cities like we have here.
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### Author:  [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/16 "2009-03-26T01:33:02Z")
I think at a really fundamental level it does come down to the difference in philosophy between the British political parties. People may sneer that they’re all the same these days, but I don’t think they are, deep down. The left sincerely believe in collectivism, while the right remains more individualist. Whatever the merits of the two philosophies are, a collectivist outlook necessarily requires you to be more comfortable with the idea of overriding individual rights when necessary. That is the outlook that our current government has, so they don’t really see any inherent problem with increased surveillance and so on. It’s a natural extension of their political philosophy. It’s all for the collective good, maybe it impairs individual liberty in a few cases here and there, but so what?
You may counter that the state was just as intrusive under Thatcher, but you’d simply be wrong. The instincts of her government were in the opposite direction, and the simple fact is that the state was smaller then, there were fewer regulations, it was less of a nanny state.
I’m not simply banging the drum for the Conservatives, by the way. The Lib Dems deserve a lot of credit for living up to their name recently and being vocal about liberties and the stealthy erosion of them. If they keep going like this I might almost vote for them.
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### Author:  [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/17 "2009-03-26T01:50:37Z")
You can’t really compare the last Tory government to Labour in terms of how much surveillance they had over people - the technology simply wasn’t available as widely back then. CCTV did start to become widespread when the Tories were in government, however. The Tories now have voted for ID cards alongside Labour and have sided with them on anything to do with ‘terrorism.’
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### Author:  [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/18 "2009-03-26T02:51:23Z")
> [@slaphead](#):
>
> I think :rolleyes: would sum it up pretty nicely. More authoritarian pointless crap from the powers that be. There’s a pretty decent article about it [here](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/24/police_ad/) and the reader comments give you a pretty representative opinon sample.
Thank you **slaphead** for your link. I don’t know how well respected the _ **Register** _ is as a newspaper, but certainly the article and the comments lead me to believe that this was not a well thought out proposal and isn’t being accepted particularly well.
And, thanks also to the others who responded.
Bob
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### Author:  [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2009, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-british-dopers-re-anti-terrorism-measures/490702/19 "2009-03-26T08:46:10Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#):
>
> I think we could learn a lot from Americans and their attitudes towards things like gun control, tbh.
Personally, I’m not so sure. The whole second amendment thing is more an example of people defending posession of something they really really like to own, rather than an attachment to freedom, IMO. Certainly the US seems to have been just as susceptible to the “Be Safe, Be Suspicious” approach to eroding civil liberties, as embodied in PATRIOT, wiretapping, Gitmo, no-fly lists and the rest.
[quote=“urban1z, post:18, topic:490702”]
Thank you **slaphead** for your link. I don’t know how well respected the _ **Register** _ is as a newspaper, /QUOTE]
website only. Not that respectable, but well-loved by its limited readership