# Question for contrail conspiracists **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 7, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533 "2014-07-07T12:38:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/21 "2014-07-07T21:28:34Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Contrails are water vapor, and are naturally emitted by jet aircraft under normal flying conditions. Because they remain in place for a prolonged period of time, and they dissipate, they could easily suggest themselves as ideal carriers for other materials besides water vapor – if the operators of the flights chose to do so. > > I’m not a contrail conspiracist, I’m just answering your question. I have no doubt that there were at least experiments to test the distribution of materials in that way, in case it would prove to be a useful tool in warfare. Wait, explain what you mean by ‘carriers of other material’. Carry from where to where? How does the material get into the contrail? How does it leave the contrail and where is it supposed to go? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/22 "2014-07-07T21:41:30Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Wait, explain what you mean by ‘carriers of other material’. Carry from where to where? How does the material get into the contrail? How does it leave the contrail and where is it supposed to go? You equip the plane to spray the material out into the atmosphere behind the plane, so it mixes in with the vapor/droplets/particulate that forms the contrail. I suspect aeronautical engineers can figure out how to do that, without me explaining it to them – contrails are not an unexplained mystery. It merges with the atmosphere, and circulates down to the lower levels where its effects can be felt by respirating organisms. A “contrail” and a “chemtrail” are not the same thing, but can appear indistinguishable by observers on the ground. I am not a contrail conspiracist, I’m just answering your questions. Is it being done? I don’t know. Can it be done? I don t see why not. Would the government want to do it? We’re not allowed to know that. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/23 "2014-07-07T21:51:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If the government wanted to secretly put chemicals into our lungs, they’d figure out a way to put them into the air where people breathe. Heck, let’s start a rumor that the government is putting chemicals into catalytic converters so we inhale the chemicals from car exhaust. Or that they’re secretly putting chemicals into air conditioner filters. They’d be detectable by private sector investigators, who have free access to the manufacture and distribution of those devices. I’m not a contrail conspiracist, I’m just answering your questions. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/24 "2014-07-07T21:58:50Z")
Any chemical in a “chemtrail” would be so diluted by the time it hit the ground that it would nearly worthless. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/25 "2014-07-07T22:05:23Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > Has anyone ever done calculations of how much liquid a plane would carry in order to make its own contrails? (IE, what is the average density and sie of a contrail?) I’d bet it would be more than most planes could carry. Where are the planes carrying this liquid and how do they support the weight? It’s not that implausible - according to my quick calculations, to make 3 kg of water vapor that you see in the contrail, it takes about 2 kg of jet fuel. So the contrails that you see are, in weight, on the same order of magnitude as the fuel that the planes are already carrying. Of course, that means that the planes would need to carry fuel PLUS the chemical, but on the other hand they wouldn’t need to carry all those people or freight. But it’s not implausible just because of the weight. The idea of chemtrails is my favorite conspiracy theory, just because it’s a good marker for nutty thinking. You can’t believe in the chemtrail conspiracy and also have any grasp of reality. And these people really exist - just take a look at the comments following these articles: [http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/27/az-residents-at-chemtrail-hearing-were-being-sprayed-like-were-bugs-and-its-really-not-okay/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/27/az-residents-at-chemtrail-hearing-were-being-sprayed-like-were-bugs-and-its-really-not-okay/) > **[State lawmaker listens to concerns about 'chemtrails'](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/2014/06/27/state-lawmaker-listens-concerns-chemtrails/11445993/)** > > Some Arizona residents want the state to investigate possible "chemtrails" contamination. > **[Arizona Holds Fiery Meeting On Chemtrail Fears](https://www.ibtimes.com/what-are-chemtrails-furious-arizona-residents-demand-answers-popular-conspiracy-theory-1615766)** > > Is the gas that trails from airplane engines a harmless vapor or nefarious chemical agent? A community group demands to know. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/26 "2014-07-07T22:40:22Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > The idea of chemtrails is my favorite conspiracy theory, just because it’s a good marker for nutty thinking. You can’t believe in the chemtrail conspiracy and also have any grasp of reality. The fact that a person who espouses an idea is an idiot and argues for it illogically, is not by itself proof of its falsehood. If it were, that alone would be proof there is no God. The government has the technical capability. The government has the opportunity. The government has the enforceable secrecy to escape detection. The government has a history of nefarious business as well as ill-conceived misadventures… The government has the motive to at least test the principle to see if it might have useful application in distributing harmful agents for warfare, crowd control, etc. Which of those statements is patently “nutty”? I am not a contrail conspiracist, I’m just answering your questions. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/27 "2014-07-07T23:22:20Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > The fact that a person who espouses an idea is an idiot and argues for it illogically, is not by itself proof of its falsehood. If it were, that alone would be proof there is no God. Belief in chemtrails is proof there is no God. > [@](#): > > The government has the technical capability. No, it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > The government has the opportunity. No, it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > The government has the enforceable secrecy to escape detection. No, it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > The government has a history of nefarious business as well as ill-conceived misadventures… Not on this scale and never unconcealed. > [@](#): > > The government has the motive to at least test the principle to see if it might have useful application in distributing harmful agents for warfare, crowd control, etc. This is nutty. > [@](#): > > Which of those statements is patently “nutty”? One is nutty and the rest are idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/28 "2014-07-07T23:40:37Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] One is nutty and the rest are idiotic. [/QUOTE] And none address the central problem\*: if all these mind-altering body-sickening chemicals are being dumped into the atmosphere at high altitudes, to disperse willy-nilly over large areas, how are the plotters managing to avoid inhaling them? Really tiny oxygen masks? Secret antidotes? Is there a master race that lives entirely indoors in climate-controlled safety? \*also, the idea that such a plot could be carried out secretly on the massive scale that chemtrail conspiracy theorists envision is moronic in the extreme. \*\*the “just answering questions” construct is my new favorite, supplanting “just asking questions”. I am not a conspiracy debunker. I’m just providing rational answers. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/29 "2014-07-07T23:50:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Fluoride Dihydrogen monoxide. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/30 "2014-07-07T23:52:51Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Dihydrogen monoxide. _gasp_ Poison! ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/31 "2014-07-07T23:57:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Seems like a really bad way of dispersing a chemical. You want somebody to inhale a chemical so you dump it into the atmosphere at an altitude of 35,000 feet? How spread out and diluted is it going to be by the time it sinks down to ground level? I’m reminded of that scene in Hunt for Red October where Alec Baldwin is asking his submarine expert friend about the new Russian sub: \*\*“Would you launch an ICBM horizontally?” “Sure. Why would you want to?”\*\* I got into this end of it with my friend too. Very impractical way of accomplishing… what exactly? Even if you had the means to dump chemicals in that manner, why would you? He seemed to think it was to do with weather control, which again raised the question… why? If I were a super-villain, what would that sort of subtle weather control do for me? Say chemtrails, as envisioned by the CT crowd, actually could CAUSE global warming. Why would you? In order to corner the market on those new light bulbs? I could think of an easier way to make a buck without having to bother with covert, costly and inefficient chemical spraying. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/32 "2014-07-08T00:03:41Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > They’d be detectable by private sector investigators, who have free access to the manufacture and distribution of those devices. And you figure shadowy government agents are able to sneak on to commercial airliners and plant mysterious packages inside them in the middle of major airports without anyone noticing? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/33 "2014-07-08T03:39:06Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > You equip the plane to spray the material out into the atmosphere behind the plane, so it mixes in with the vapor/droplets/particulate that forms the contrail. And tens of thousands of airframe mechanics and aircraft enginge manufacturing employees are somehow sworn to secrecy. Yet the president gets blown by an intern… ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/34 "2014-07-08T09:35:17Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > What do those who believe in the contrail conspiracies think that the Government is spewing forth from aircraft? > > I was watching some WW2 documentary of a large formation of B17s over Germany. And what about contrails from German, Japanese ,and communist Russian aircraft ? Even Chinese serviced Migs ? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/35 "2014-07-08T10:06:56Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > Has anyone ever done calculations of how much liquid a plane would carry in order to make its own contrails? (IE, what is the average density and sie of a contrail?) I’d bet it would be more than most planes could carry. Yes they have indeed. > [@](#): > > The water vapour from the exhaust gases alone is not enough to form a contrail. Knollenberg (1972) gives a breakdown of typical components of aircraft exhaust gases, with around 1.37 kg of water vapour released per kg of fuel burned. The study found that exhaust gases contained around 1.7 g of water vapour for every metre flown, but found actual persistent contrails to contain at least 30,000 times that level (20,700-41,200 g per metre). This means that the overwhelming majority of the water in contrails comes from the atmosphere, with only around 1 in every 30,000 molecules originating from the burning of the fuel. > **[Contrails v Chemtrails: The Science That Debunks The Conspiracy](https://irishweatheronline.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/contrails-v-chemtrails-the-science-that-debunks-the-conspiracy/comment-page-4/)** > > There are those who claim that the trails we see behind aircraft high in the sky are not the normal condensation of water vapour from the hot exhaust gases but are in fact chemicals that are b… Original paper is here: [http://ciresweb.colorado.edu/science/groups/pielke/classes/atoc7500/knollenberg72.pdf](http://ciresweb.colorado.edu/science/groups/pielke/classes/atoc7500/knollenberg72.pdf) So, taking the average figure of about 31kg of water per metre of visible contrail, and the average cruising speed of a Boeing 747 of about 560mph (250 metres per second), we can see that an airliner is creating about **7.75 tonnes of contrail every second!** The 747-400 has a maximum take-off weight of 397 tonnes, and an unladen weight of 180 tonnes, giving a maximum load-carrying capacity of 217 tonnes (including fuel!) Even if it had no fuel on board, it could only carry enough “chem” to make 28 seconds of “trail”. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/36 "2014-07-08T11:28:01Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > … > The government has the enforceable secrecy to escape detection. > The government has a history of nefarious business as well as ill-conceived misadventures… … Do you see what is contradictory there? You may have heard of a dude named Eric Snowden. Nefarious business the government wants to keep secret eventually isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/37 "2014-07-08T11:31:15Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Even if it had no fuel on board, it could only carry enough “chem” to make 28 seconds of “trail”. Unless the chemicals are already in the atmosphere waiting for a passing jet to be activated. :eek: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/38 "2014-07-08T11:48:17Z")
I guess the natural response is that the Government is bi-polar. On one hand, they are inept and get caught at everything, but on the other hand, they are really sneaky when they want to be and never get caught. Aside from the what would they want to spray and the why they would want to, I still want someone who is just answering questions to tell me if they started this whole sneaky mess back in WW2 with the B17s. It certainly makes sense! I guess they needed a pilot program and those 1000 plane missions would have been a good choice. I will say that the last CTer I heard, said that contrails weren’t always bad ones; it was only the contrails that were really persistent in the sky that were the chemtrails. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/39 "2014-07-08T11:55:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And you figure shadowy government agents are able to sneak on to commercial airliners and plant mysterious packages inside them in the middle of major airports without anyone noticing? You are thinking inside the box again. A chem distribution scheme that had the devices right where any Bubba or Cletus could find them would fail almost immediately. Someone would ask “What is this thing on my catalytic converter? Why does my air conditining filter smell like chloroform?” Because auto mechanics and HVAC technicians are normal, salt-of-the-earth type people; the very folks these conspiracies are aimed against. Not like those elite aircraft mechanics. You know, they would not let an ordinary person even look at the engines of an airliner nowadays? What are they hiding? And who says these are actually commercial jets? A chem distribution plane painted to look like a commercial flight makes more sense, especially since you really can’t see much detail from the ground. It also eliminates the whole “Where do they hide the tanks of chemicals?” if the entire passenger compartment has been converted. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533/40 "2014-07-08T11:59:42Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Unless the chemicals are already in the atmosphere waiting for a passing jet to be activated. :eek: Which, of course, they are. More than 99.99% of the mass of a chemtrail consists of a crystalline polar chemical that undergoes a phase change as a direct result of emissions from aircraft!!! And they call this harmless!!!11 😛 On another forum I am having fun posting predictions for whether chemtrails will be visible over my house the next day. I’ve got seven out of seven correct so far, based on nothing more than a bit of weather model data and a small amount of number crunching. Either that or I’m in cahoots with the sprayers, of course… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-contrail-conspiracists/692533.md?page=3)