# Question for Democrats - Restaurant exclusion sign **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543 "2017-03-19T14:47:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/201 "2017-03-20T21:29:30Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > No, it isn’t. What they voted for was fascism. We can disagree about which party should run things and still remain amicable, but if you voted for despotism then we cannot be friends. Despotism and fascism have real meanings. ProTip those words don’t mean the complete set of people who don’t vote for the Democrat candidate. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/202 "2017-03-20T21:36:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Mexican isn’t even a so-called “race.” It’s a nationality. This is a pretty weak defense of bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/203 "2017-03-20T21:39:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Mexican isn’t even a so-called “race.” It’s a nationality. I am still having trouble figuring out whether you are posting this sincerely, or whether you’re making some subtle satirical point about American fuzzy thinking on ethnicity, nationality, and race. Clarify, please? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/204 "2017-03-20T21:50:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Mexican isn’t even a so-called “race.” It’s a nationality. You know who else never apologizes for racist or factually incorrect remarks? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/205 "2017-03-20T22:01:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a pretty weak defense of bigotry. It’s nothing of the sort. Please, if you are going to insult people, at least be accurate. This isn’t the pit. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I am still having trouble figuring out whether you are posting this sincerely, or whether you’re making some subtle satirical point about American fuzzy thinking on ethnicity, nationality, and race. Clarify, please? Words have meanings. Reflexively shrieking “Nazi!”, “RAcisT!!!11”, “evil”, “fascist” etc devalues the words. Therefore, I’m trying to convey that if you want your attack words to still have any value in the future try using them more accurately and appropriately in the present. Otherwise, no one will care when a real fascist comes along. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > You know who else never apologizes for racist or factually incorrect remarks? Else? You are stating my remarks are either racist or factually incorrect. They are neither and since this isn’t the pit, I’d like an apology for your attack. If you want language to be useful use it accurately. The irony is my post is more factually correct and less racist than those critiquing someone else joke. Mexican is not a race. If Mexicans did eat cats it wouldn’t be racist to comment on what is factual. It wouldn’t even be racist if it weren’t. Mexico is a nation. The citizens are Mexican. It’s a nationality. Those concepts are not hard. Now, labeling someone or a group a racist or racists as an ad hominem attack to discredit an individual or a group instead of debating an issue on it’s merits is a tactic that is thankfully being perceived as ridiculous and worthy of no more than an :rolleyes:. Trump is president, in part, due to factually inaccurate people being rightfully perceived as parodies and nags. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/206 "2017-03-20T22:12:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s nothing of the sort. Please, if you are going to insult people, at least be accurate. This isn’t the pit. Who am I insulting? If you took that as an insult (and I don’t honestly see how – it was a criticism of your post, but not an insult in any way) then I apologize. “Racist” in common parlance often just means “bigoted”. That may not be the original use of the word, but current use = definition, and current use includes such a broader definition than the older sense of the world. Not a huge deal, but still bigoted, IMO, to spread negative stereotypes even in a joking fashion, as did the joke by another poster about Mexican restaurants serving cat. And I thought your defense of this bigotry, which amounted to an incorrect semantic distinction, to be rather weak. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/207 "2017-03-20T22:28:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Despotism and fascism have real meanings. ProTip those words don’t mean the complete set of people who don’t vote for the Democrat candidate. Yes, they do have real meanings. And when scholars of history use them, it’s probably a safe bet that they know the meanings and historical perspectives better than you do, and didn’t just look them up in their handy Pocket Dictionary-O’-Insults. ProTip: When cites are provided in these discussions, read them. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/208 "2017-03-20T22:58:40Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Yes, they do have real meanings. And when scholars of history use them, it’s probably a safe bet that they know the meanings and historical perspectives better than you do, and didn’t just look them up in their handy Pocket Dictionary-O’-Insults. > > ProTip: When cites are provided in these discussions, read them. Politically motivated “scholars of history?” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/209 "2017-03-20T23:17:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Words have meanings. Reflexively shrieking “Nazi!”, “RAcisT!!!11”, “evil”, “fascist” etc devalues the words. Therefore, I’m trying to convey that if you want your attack words to still have any value in the future try using them more accurately and appropriately in the present. Otherwise, no one will care when a real fascist comes along. Holy Non sequitur, Batman. Best I can figure, you’re genuinely confused. So here it is: no, Mexican isn’t a race. I know that. Congratulations! Neither is “Kenyan,” but if someone drew a picture of Obama’s Kenyan grandfather with a bone through his nose and a pot full of missionaries, I’d call it racist. And neither is “Chinese,” but if someone writes about a Chinese restaurant serving stray dogs, I’ll recognize it as racist. “Latino” may not match any specific racial category, but since race is a social construct anyway, and since many people treat Latinos as a racial category distinct from “white,” I can recognize that posts like **watchwolf’s** are racist posts. This is not rocket science, and trying to pedantic your way out of recognizing the bleedin’ obvious is not a good look for you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/210 "2017-03-20T23:45:53Z")
I for one applaud the restaurateur’s novel marketing strategy. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/211 "2017-03-20T23:48:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Politically motivated “scholars of history?” “Politically motivated” ≠ “Them’s that disagree with me”. Words have meanings. There is no intrinsic reason that the world’s arguably most respected magazine of literature, news, and investigative reporting should have political bias, although there’s lots of reasons that they might reach well-substantiated analytical conclusions that differ from your own personal opinions. Conclusions, in this particular case, substantiated in one essay by a Pultizer-prize winning journalist and another by the recipient of three National Magazine Awards for Essay and Criticism, both of whom are respected journalists and social and political observers and neither of whom have any apparent political connections or insidious “political motivations”. Words have meanings. You should use them more carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/212 "2017-03-21T00:31:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And neither is “Chinese,” but if someone writes about a Chinese restaurant serving stray dogs, I’ll recognize it as racist. Why is that racist? It is a simple fact that dog and cat meat is commonly used in some Asian countries especially southern China. Horse meat is common in Europe. “Bush meat” including chimps and monkeys are used all over the world. Even cannibalism was practiced within living memory and can still be found in some areas. I can see it being an insult if someone is talking about a strip-mall American Chinese restaurant but it may be perfectly accurate if they are actually in China. Not everyone has the same attitudes about animals and meat sources that Americans do. It has nothing to do with race. It is about location, legality and culturally sanctioned meat sources which are fairly arbitrary. > **[Dog meat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat)** > > Dog meat is the flesh and other edible parts derived from dogs. Historically human consumption of dog meat has been recorded in many parts of the world. > In the 21st century dog meat is consumed to a limited extent in Korea, China, Indonesia, Nigeria, Switzerland, Vietnam, and India; it is eaten or is legal to be eaten in other countries throughout the world. Some cultures view the consumption of dog meat as part of their traditional, ritualistic, or day-to-day cuisine, and other cultures cons... _"Historically, human consumption of dog meat has been recorded in many parts of the world, including East and Southeast Asia, West Africa, Europe, Oceania and the Americas.[2] In the 21st century, dog meat is consumed in many parts of China,[3] Korea,[4] and Vietnam.[5] Today, a number of cultures view the consumption of dog meat as part of their traditional and day-to-day cuisine, while others – such as Western culture – consider consumption of dog meat a taboo, although they have been consumed in times of war or other hardships.[6][7] It was estimated in 2014 that worldwide, 25 million dogs are eaten each year by humans.[8]_ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/213 "2017-03-21T01:21:28Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Why is that racist? It is a simple fact that dog and cat meat is commonly used in some Asian countries especially southern China. Pro Tip: if you think that a bleedin’ obvious fact is all it takes to prove me wrong (“Mexico is a country! Dog meat is eaten in China!”) there’s a giant chance that you’re missing something. Yes. Dog meat is eaten in China. You’ll note a key phrase: IN CHINA. Not in the United States at Chinese restaurants. [edit: of course we’re talking about Chinese restaurants outside of China–I thought the context of the conversation would have made that clear.] The dogs eaten in China are raised for meat. They are not strays rounded up by unscrupulous cooks trying to save money. The gyrations and contortions people will go through just to avoid admitting something is racist, good grief. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/214 "2017-03-21T01:39:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Holy Non sequitur, Batman. > > Best I can figure, you’re genuinely confused. So here it is: no, Mexican isn’t a race. I know that. Congratulations! Neither is “Kenyan,” but if someone drew a picture of Obama’s Kenyan grandfather with a bone through his nose and a pot full of missionaries, I’d call it racist. And neither is “Chinese,” but if someone writes about a Chinese restaurant serving stray dogs, I’ll recognize it as racist. > > “Latino” may not match any specific racial category, but since race is a social construct anyway, and since many people treat Latinos as a racial category distinct from “white,” I can recognize that posts like **watchwolf’s** are racist posts. > > This is not rocket science, and trying to pedantic your way out of recognizing the bleedin’ obvious is not a good look for you. It’s not racist if Chinese eat cats or if Kenyans eat missionaries. Those would be facts if they are indeed factual. Do you know that racism doesn’t mean a comment or a joke that LHoD or some other random person doesn’t like? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/215 "2017-03-21T01:40:59Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > “Politically motivated” ≠ “Them’s that disagree with me”. > > Words have meanings. > > There is no intrinsic reason that the world’s arguably most respected magazine of literature, news, and investigative reporting should have political bias, although there’s lots of reasons that they might reach well-substantiated analytical conclusions that differ from your own personal opinions. Conclusions, in this particular case, substantiated in one essay by a Pultizer-prize winning journalist and another by the recipient of three National Magazine Awards for Essay and Criticism, both of whom are respected journalists and social and political observers and neither of whom have any apparent political connections or insidious “political motivations”. Words have meanings. You should use them more carefully. Paul Krugman has a Nobel prize for economics. That doesn’t mean he’s not politically motivated. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/216 "2017-03-21T01:49:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The gyrations and contortions people will go through just to avoid admitting something is racist, good grief. There are no gyrations. It is just a joke based on reality. I am a Louisianan living in the North. People sometimes make jokes to me about eating alligators, squirrels and even road kill. My response is to say “Oh, hell yeah!” (especially to the alligator). It is awesome and I am not happy that I can’t get it easily anymore. It is no more racist than saying that people in Maine eat moose because many of them do. You are letting your own bias show. There is nothing inherently wrong with eating a deer versus a cat. It is just the former is perfectly acceptable in U.S. culture while the latter is not. Double-dog pro-tip (no pun intended) - people don’t literally think that Asian people in the U.S. serve Fido and Fluffy in mainstream Chinese restaurants. It is just a cultural joke that isn’t meant to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/217 "2017-03-21T02:12:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Mexican is not a race. Says who? They’re a race if they are treated as such and perceived as such. Dunno where you got your definition of racism; mine is consistent with both the dictionary (Oxford: “A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group. ‘we Scots were a bloodthirsty race then’”) and an obvious examination of the sociological nature of race as a concept. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/218 "2017-03-21T02:31:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s not racist if Chinese eat cats or if Kenyans eat missionaries. Those would be facts if they are indeed factual. “Those would be facts if they are indeed factual.” Jesus. I think this speaks more eloquently to the contortions people will go through to avoid calling something racist than anything else I could say on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/219 "2017-03-21T02:32:31Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > You are letting your own bias show. There is nothing inherently wrong with eating a deer versus a cat. It is just the former is perfectly acceptable in U.S. culture while the latter is not. Oh yes. I’m the REAL racist for pointing out the racist jokes! This thread is really delivering. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/220 "2017-03-21T02:38:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “Those would be facts if they are indeed factual.” > > Jesus. > > I think this speaks more eloquently to the contortions people will go through to avoid calling something racist than anything else I could say on the subject. The better question is can you say anything intelligent on the subject? There is nothing racist about any of it. It is cultural if anything. Black Americans really do love fried chicken and watermelon. Do you know why? Because they are awesome. Likewise, different cultural groups around the world have different ideas of acceptable foods than typical Americans. Asians in particular are not very big on animal rights. That isn’t _racist_, it is just a simple fact. I find it helpful to translate your posts into a Gomer Pyle voice because they make more sense that way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543.md?page=12)