# Question for Democrats - Restaurant exclusion sign **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543 "2017-03-19T14:47:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/41 "2017-03-19T18:05:35Z")
Bad move, especially since the restaurant could have accomplished the same things in more productive ways. They’d get much the same effect from a sign that said “All are welcome here, including immigrants, Muslims, and the trasgendered”. Or if they absolutely had to be exclusionary about it, they could have said “racists, religious bigots, and pussy-grabbers not welcome here”, and force the deplorables to be the ones calling themselves out if they want to complain. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/42 "2017-03-19T18:07:41Z")
Is the food any good? If it is, I’d go there. The guy sounds funny and I like to support expressions of outrage directed at the farce in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/43 "2017-03-19T18:20:48Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Every reminder to the deplorables that they crossed a line is important. Some of them will wonder, “why is everyone so freaked out?” And perhaps they will begin to understand. I thought only half or so of the Trump supporters were supposed to be deplorables. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/44 "2017-03-19T18:24:00Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Every conservative speaker or are you just talking about Milo? I didn’t follow the Milo stuff very closely, but what I did catch was really, really nasty. The thing about him was that he wasn’t (always) attacking groups of people, he was picking out individuals. He’d go on stage with pictures of minority students and make fun of them. Then fall back to his "I date a black guy and got raped when I was little, so I’m totally allowed to do what ever I want and look at how super flamboyant I am, do I really look threatening in my feather boa?’ shtick. > > Sure, I’ll give you that freedom of speech allows for a certain level of ‘hate speech’ as long as it stays within the confines of the law, but with that, that same amendment also allows people to go and protest those speakers. It works both ways. Speech I don’t like is okay. Speakers I don’t like are okay. Letting sad, psychologically damaged trolls like Milo speak is okay. Peaceful protests, are definitely okay. Preventing any of those from legally taking place by restricting freedom of speech or through violent means, not okay. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/45 "2017-03-19T18:52:07Z")
I’m flashing back to Spring, 1986, when I began seeing bumper stickers in Honolulu that read “NO ALOHA FOR DICTATORS”. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/46 "2017-03-19T19:11:42Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I thought only half or so of the Trump supporters were supposed to be deplorables. Hillary was being much more charitable than I would be. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/47 "2017-03-19T19:22:00Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > If you voted for Trump, then through either malice or ignorance, you are responsible for a great deal of harm. He’s only been President for 60 days. What _actual_ harm has befallen the nation so far? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/48 "2017-03-19T19:44:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > … I believe liberals have the moral high ground here. I believe we’re mentally tougher and we have the arc of history and justice on our side. We ought not give in to this kind of vindictive pettiness. > … Though I support the right of a business to refuse service as long as the refusal isn’t based on a protected (usually demographic-based) class, I do find the ‘hold onto the moral high ground’ argument persuasive. An important part of this story is that the sign was small and hand-made, which raises the question: can patrons be certain that such a sign was actually posted by the owner? In this case it was, but it’s easy to imagine other cases in which some unauthorized person decided to commit some mischief. You can be certain that there will be folks on the right who will claim that Liberal business owners are being mean and nasty, when that might not be the case at all–and they will never correct themselves. In other words, the ‘retaliation’ of which you speak will occur \*whether or not \*left-leaning business owners post signs. But it’s better, on the whole, that the left-leaning refrain from being outright exclusionary, in my view. Why descend to that level? > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > What if a business were to put up a sign not specifically rejecting torture-supporting bigots but just read “A portion of the proceeds from each sale will be donated to the ACLU”? That wouldn’t be discriminatory but would probably keep the Republicans away anyway. I like this idea a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/49 "2017-03-19T19:49:26Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > But it’s better, on the whole, that the left-leaning refrain from being outright exclusionary, in my view. Why descend to that level? What’s wrong with excluding evil? Isn’t excluding evil our moral duty? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/50 "2017-03-19T19:50:34Z")
The owner sounds like a real asshole, and is a bigot. I would not eat there mainly because I would not want to give him any money. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/51 "2017-03-19T19:51:39Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Is the food any good? > > If it is, I’d go there. The guy sounds funny and I like to support expressions of outrage directed at the farce in Washington. Really people … get a grip … if the food was good, then I’d eat there no matter the signage … “politically sensitive palate” … let’s boycott Macy’s because they have a whole section for strictly women’s clothing … ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/52 "2017-03-19T19:58:12Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > What’s wrong with excluding evil? Isn’t excluding evil our moral duty? Is it reasonable to assume that every person who voted for Trump is an evil person? ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/53 "2017-03-19T20:11:57Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Is it reasonable to assume that every person who voted for Trump is an evil person? _Ipso facto_ yes. Voting for someone like Orange Hitler is the very sort of thing that makes one evil. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/54 "2017-03-19T20:13:54Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > What’s wrong with excluding evil? Isn’t excluding evil our moral duty? > [@John\_Mace](#): > > The owner sounds like a real asshole, and is a bigot. I would not eat there mainly because I would not want to give him any money. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Reposing: > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He took the sign down at the end of December, btw: > > [Restaurant removes sign shunning Trump supporters | Honolulu Star-Advertiser](http://www.staradvertiser.com/2016/12/28/breaking-news/restaurant-removes-sign-shunning-trump-supporters/) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/55 "2017-03-19T20:18:53Z")
Do we have to serve them if they are gay? How about if they are ordering a cake? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/56 "2017-03-19T20:38:22Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > _Ipso facto_ yes. > > Voting for someone like Orange Hitler is the very sort of thing that makes one evil. I’ll repost this once again because it bears repeating: > [@The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/2536): > > That Trump has been able to overcome that satire and achieve the presidency despite being a legendary ass clown of a businessman speaks to some heretofore unexpressed desperation on the part of many Americans about a nation and a future they no longer feel to be a part of or represented by. And as easy as it is to just label Trump voters as a class as bigots and idiots, there is the case to be made that even if they are less than accepting of egalitarian progress, they deserve and require a degree of representation and respect by virtue of being citizens of this nation. (I refer to essentially decent people living in decaying Rust Belt and coal mining towns who really just want assurance of some kind of future, not avowed racist fuckholes of the Ku Klux Klan or alt-right worshipers of Steve Bannon-espoused conspiranoia.) Politics on both sides can’t just neglect the “middle third” because they aren’t on the economically more productive coasts, because these are the people who keep us fed and suffer neglect at the hands of exploitative corporations who move operations as suits them, leaving a void of jobs and pollution behind them. > > Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/57 "2017-03-19T20:46:22Z")
It’s a bunch of nonsense, though. Even if you didn’t vote for him because you hate everyone who’s not a cishet white guy, the fact is that you thought that shitting on everyone who’s not a cishet white guy was an acceptable side effect for getting what you did want–which is itself an act of moral degeneracy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/58 "2017-03-19T20:47:04Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. > Reposing: Taking the sign down was a smart thing to do, so I wouldn’t call that stupidity. And he’s still a bigot, regardless. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/59 "2017-03-19T20:47:46Z")
Had they not continued to support Trump after he announced he’s in favour of invading countries to steal their resources, had they not cheered when he announced his intention to commit war crimes, I would be more inclined to feel charitable towards them. I came of voting age in troubled economic times, and I live where oil is king and the provincial fortunes rise and fall with the price of oil. The right-wing candidate at the time promised 100 000 jobs, and I believed him, so I can see where these people are coming from. But the war crimes are a deal-breaker. As far as I’m concerned, anyone who didn’t reject Trump after he announced his intent to torture prisoners and murder their families is not fit to share my air. If that causes pearls to be clutched in the bridge club or PTA, I can live with that. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/60 "2017-03-19T20:49:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And he’s still a bigot, regardless. So you don’t know what words mean? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543.md?page=4)