# Question for Democrats - Restaurant exclusion sign **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543 "2017-03-19T14:47:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/161 "2017-03-20T17:07:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This thread is so full of impotent rage it probably deserves honorable mention in the schadenfreude thread, but I do really appreciate QuickSilver’s posts here. He seems to have been working overtime lately to have some reasonable dialogue or at least basic decency with his political opponents, and I applaud that. Kudos to you **QuickSilver**! People who support Trump are not simply “political opponents.” I get along fine with political opponents. If you can’t see the difference, you probably don’t understand the sign at the restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Firebreather1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47c2d/32.png) [@Firebreather1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Firebreather1)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/162 "2017-03-20T17:11:07Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > People who support Trump are not simply “political opponents.” I get along fine with political opponents. If you can’t see the difference, you probably don’t understand the sign at the restaurant. Yes, that’s exactly what they are, political opponents, nothing more, nothing less. I’m sorry if you can’t get that through your thick skull. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/163 "2017-03-20T17:20:13Z")
> [@Firebreather1](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly what they are, political opponents, nothing more, nothing less. I’m sorry if you can’t get that through your thick skull. No, it isn’t. What they voted for was fascism. We can disagree about which party should run things and still remain amicable, but if you voted for despotism then we cannot be friends. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/164 "2017-03-20T17:22:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > No, it isn’t. What they voted for was fascism. We can disagree about which party should run things and still remain amicable, but if you voted for despotism then we cannot be friends. I don’t remember this bonhomie directed by you at Bush voters in 2000 or 2004. I may have missed it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/165 "2017-03-20T17:26:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > People who support Trump are not simply “political opponents.” I get along fine with political opponents. If you can’t see the difference, you probably don’t understand the sign at the restaurant. The sign from the OP said “If you voted for Trump you cannot eat here! No Nazis.” The sign appears to be directed at all of the ~63 million Americans that voted for Trump. It’s not clear to me what distinction you’re trying to draw between your political opponents and “people who support Trump” and how those two groups you’ve formed in your mind might overlap with the people who voted for Trump, but I’m pretty sure I understood the sign at the restaurant just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/166 "2017-03-20T17:27:21Z")
> [@Rick\_Sanchez](#): > > I’m sorry, but that’s simply more of the moral myopia and arrogance that so many people not of the left find so terribly nauseating. You don’t know these people’s minds. There are plenty of reasons why a moral person might decide to take a punt on an outsider like Trump. Not least among them is the fact that, if her voting record is anything to go by, Hillary Clinton has an insatiable appetite for war. Hell, she voted for the disaster in Iraq, even though she knew the case for war was bullshit. What kind of human being does something like that? a) You’re not sorry. b) Others “don’t know these people’s minds” but you know that “Hillary Clinton has an insatiable appetite for war” and that “she knew the case for war was bullshit.” Moral myopia? Arrogance? Projection? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/167 "2017-03-20T17:33:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yeah. I don’t see how commenting or even joking on the catching and eating the local game is racist. I’ve seen Roadkill Grill cafe t-shirts. I don’t consider those racist. I know people who eat squirrel and stuff. You don’t. Others do. There might just be entire races of people who don’t want to be lumped in with your friends as a group. Think of it as something intangible… like Class. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/168 "2017-03-20T17:36:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This thread is so full of impotent rage it probably deserves honorable mention in the schadenfreude thread, but I do really appreciate QuickSilver’s posts here. He seems to have been working overtime lately to have some reasonable dialogue or at least basic decency with his political opponents, and I applaud that. Kudos to you **QuickSilver**! I agree. I’ve always suspected their liberal outrage especially of recent years fulfills some sort of psychological need. I’m always perplexed how they have so much energy to get angry and yet so little desire to take productive action. I bring up voted id and ask why don’t liberals work to provide people IDs so they can vote as well as do numerous other activities? I never get an answer. They just scream racism. Imagine if instead of marching on Washington, they used all of those (wo)man hours and other resources to do something concrete? Think of what could have been accomplished. > **[Moral Outrage Is Self-Serving, Say Psychologists](https://reason.com/2017/03/01/moral-outrage-is-self-serving/)** > > Perpetually raging about the world's injustices? You're probably overcompensating. "Moral Outrage Is Self-Serving, Say Psychologists Perpetually raging about the world’s injustices? You’re probably overcompensating. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/169 "2017-03-20T17:43:58Z")
One shouldn’t need an ID to vote because not all eligible voters have easy access to getting an ID. That makes voting more difficult and unfair, and we, as a great nation, shouldn’t make voting more difficult and unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/170 "2017-03-20T17:47:49Z")
> [@Firebreather1](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly what they are, political opponents, nothing more, nothing less. I’m sorry if you can’t get that through your thick skull. Firebreater1- Here at the Straight Dope we insist on civil discussion everywhere except the BBQ Pit. Please refrain from insulting other posters in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/171 "2017-03-20T17:47:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not clear to me what distinction you’re trying to draw between your political opponents and “people who support Trump” and how those two groups you’ve formed in your mind might overlap with the people who voted for Trump, but I’m pretty sure I understood the sign at the restaurant just fine. Political opponents are people who vote for Republicans but who don’t vote for Trump. Supporting Trump changes everything. For obvious reasons ---
**Author:** ![Firebreather1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47c2d/32.png) [@Firebreather1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Firebreather1)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/172 "2017-03-20T17:49:58Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > a) You’re not sorry. > b) Others “don’t know these people’s minds” but you know that “Hillary Clinton has an insatiable appetite for war” and that “she knew the case for war was bullshit.” Moral myopia? Arrogance? Projection? a) Correct. b) Of course Mrs. Clinton has an insatiable appetite for war. Why do you think so many neoconservatives in the GOP vociferously supported her campaign, among them David Frum, Max Boot, Robert Kagan, Richard Armitage, and others? Because they shared her penchant for extreme hawkishness in attacking foreign governments. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/173 "2017-03-20T17:51:52Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > One shouldn’t need an ID to vote … That’s a view shared by [19% of Americans](http://www.gallup.com/poll/194741/four-five-americans-support-voter-laws-early-voting.aspx). Should it matter what the other 80% want? ---
**Author:** ![Firebreather1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47c2d/32.png) [@Firebreather1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Firebreather1)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/174 "2017-03-20T17:52:31Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Political opponents are people who vote for Republicans but who don’t vote for Trump. > > Supporting Trump changes everything. For obvious reasons No, no it doesn’t. Trump was a very mainstream conservative Republican on social and low tax issues, except for his protectionist inclinations on trade, which is why he was so successful in bringing Republican voters like me to his coalition, over 90 percent, as well as a majority of Republicans and even some Democratic voters in Appalachia and the Rust Belt. They support Trump and the Republican Party; you supported Hillary and the Democrats. That makes us your political opponents, period. Many have tried to twist the English language to suit their goals, none have succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/175 "2017-03-20T17:58:05Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Political opponents are people who vote for Republicans but who don’t vote for Trump. > > Supporting Trump changes everything. For obvious reasons Phrases like “for obvious reasons” don’t get you a lot of mileage around here. Is the following a fair characterization of your view? “People who support Trump” = Trump voters = ~63 million Americans “political opponents” = the ~10% of Republicans that didn’t vote for Trump = ~6 million people If not, please kindly clarify what I’ve misunderstood about your views on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/176 "2017-03-20T18:00:49Z")
> [@Firebreather1](#): > > No, no it doesn’t. Trump was a very mainstream conservative Republican on social and low tax issues, except for his protectionist inclinations on trade, which is why he was so successful in bringing Republican voters like me to his coalition, over 90 percent, as well as a majority of Republicans and even some Democratic voters in Appalachia and the Rust Belt. They support Trump and the Republican Party; you supported Hillary and the Democrats. That makes us your political opponents, period. Many have tried to twist the English language to suit their goals, none have succeeded. You haven’t answered my question: what group of nationalist authoritarians persecuting a religious group and gearing up for war would you like us to compare to Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/177 "2017-03-20T18:01:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t remember this bonhomie directed by you at Bush voters in 2000 or 2004. I may have missed it. If I may interject here … There has long been an increasing political divisiveness in this country in which invectives of all kinds get thrown around. It’s extremely myopic to just dismiss it in these unprecedented circumstances as just more political squabbling between Republicans and Democrats. [This thoughtful article](http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/being-honest-about-trump) that I linked before was written prior to the election, and [this one](http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-american-tragedy-2) was written the day after. They are well worth a read. The message of both is that this is not now an ordinary political argument; this transcends politics. This is not a question of whether Republican or Democratic values will prevail; what is at stake here is nothing less than the most basic principles of fundamental decency and the primacy of truth and reason. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/178 "2017-03-20T18:08:29Z")
> [@Firebreather1](#): > > No, no it doesn’t. Trump was a very mainstream conservative Republican on social and low tax issues, except for his protectionist inclinations on trade, which is why he was so successful in bringing Republican voters like me to his coalition, over 90 percent, as well as a majority of Republicans and even some Democratic voters in Appalachia and the Rust Belt. They support Trump and the Republican Party; you supported Hillary and the Democrats. That makes us your political opponents, period. Many have tried to twist the English language to suit their goals, none have succeeded. He _pretended_ to be a conservative Republican on social issues. And people believed him, because reasons. Yes, of course, they’re technically “political opponents,” but at a whole different level than someone who merely “votes for a Republican.” Most Republicans do not jeopardize the heart and soul of our country. ---
**Author:** ![Firebreather1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47c2d/32.png) [@Firebreather1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Firebreather1)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/179 "2017-03-20T18:18:25Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > You haven’t answered my question: what group of nationalist authoritarians persecuting a religious group and gearing up for war would you like us to compare to Republicans? The question is based on a false premise; it assumes that Trump and the Republican Party is persecuting a religious group and gearing up for war? They’re not. War against who? Against radical Islamic terrorists? He’s just finishing what Obama failed to finish. And Muslims are welcome here in the United States, as they should be. There’s nothing wrong with nationalism and wanting to be put your country first, while still maintaining alliances with other countries. That’s the thinking of a strong and brilliant leader. ---
**Author:** ![Firebreather1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47c2d/32.png) [@Firebreather1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Firebreather1)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543/180 "2017-03-20T18:21:54Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > He _pretended_ to be a conservative Republican on social issues. And people believed him, because reasons. > > Yes, of course, they’re technically “political opponents,” but at a whole different level than someone who merely “votes for a Republican.” Most Republicans do not jeopardize the heart and soul of our country. Trump’s actions since he has taken office, specifically his nominating the socially conservative jurist Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court, reinstating and expanding the ban on funding for organizations that perform or promote abortions overseas, and the appointments of staunch pro-life conservatives like Tom Price to key Cabinet positions, show that his socially conservative message expressed during the campaign was no joke. You say that most Republicans don’t want to jeopardize this country, which I obviously agree with. You then say that those who voted for Trump do, which contradicts your logic. Since over 90% of Republicans did vote for Trump, you’re essentially that most Republicans _do_ want to jeopardize the heart and soul of the country. Which, of course, is false and a smear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-democrats-restaurant-exclusion-sign/782543.md?page=10)