# Question for Evolutionists... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2000, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106 "2000-06-01T13:33:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Celt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8491ac/32.png) [@Celt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celt)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/1 "2000-06-01T13:33:16Z")
[Did the Dinosaurs Die Suddenly?](http://www.msnbc.com/news/414489.asp) Is this consistent with the most recent evolutionary science? If so, what stage were humans in at this time? (65 million years ago). Care to hypothesize on the evolution of humans had this event-the asteroid impact- **not** occurred? ---
**Author:** ![JimmyNipples](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb9ed0/32.png) [@JimmyNipples](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimmyNipples)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/2 "2000-06-01T16:44:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > Is this consistent with the most recent evolutionary science? If so, what stage were humans in at this time? (65 million years ago). > > Care to hypothesize on the evolution of humans had this event-the asteroid impact- **not** occurred? > \*\* Humans were not around 65 million yrs ago. A distant cousin of the human was “perhaps” just starting to stand erect about 5 million yrs ago. If the dinosaurs hadn’t been taken out by a meteorite, mammals STILL would have dominated in time. Bigger brains and a different way to process thought, made mammals superior to cold blooded beasts. Regards,Graeme ---
**Author:** ![douglips](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@douglips](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/douglips)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/3 "2000-06-01T17:17:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Is this consistent with the most recent evolutionary science? Yes. > [@](#): > > If so, what stage were humans in at this time? If I’m pulling the right stuff out of my ass, mammals were at the tree shrew/rats eating bugs and dino eggs stage. I’m sure an actual biologist will be along shortly to tell us at what point primates appeared, and at what point apes appeared, but I believe Graeme is at least in the ball park for when upright walking apes were getting started. > [@](#): > > Care to hypothesize on the evolution of humans had this event-the asteroid impact-not occurred? That’s actually pretty interesting. I’m not sure if the cold-blooded/warm-blooded dinosaur debate is settled yet, so just saying that mammals had a higher metabolism may not be sufficient reason to believe mammals would have outcompeted the dinos. But either way if dinosaurs had survived I imagine that mammals would have had a slower go of it as they would have had to compete in all niches. As it was, when the dinos got the finger the nascent mammals were in a good position to expand into niches and out compete other types of animals that were trying to expand into those [empty at the time] niches as well. What are you hoping to debate here? Do you believe that this is somehow contradictory to evolution, or that it supports creationism? Where is the story of the world-wide impact in the Bible? You can’t accept evidence when it suits your beliefs and then deny that same evidence when it refutes them. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/4 "2000-06-01T18:15:08Z")
Most dinosaurs did probably die out fairly quickly after the asteroid struck. There were no humans or hominids or hominoids at that time. Mammals of the period were small mouse sized critters. After the dinosaurs were wiped out, it was several millions of years before anything remotely human in appearance shows up in the fossil record. ---
**Author:** ![Threll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Threll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threll)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/5 "2000-06-01T18:19:22Z")
drive by booming? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/6 "2000-06-01T22:51:54Z")
In short, a quick extinction of the dinos after an impact is pretty much the scenario that has been found to be most consistent with observations over the past twenty years. It is, however, always good to have verification of the time scale involved. At the time of the Chicxulub impact there existed at least one species we characterize as a primate. _Purgatorius_ was about squirrel-sized and seems to have occupied the same niche that tree-rodents hold today. Dinosaurs had dominated the world for a hundred and sixty-five million years. They had already squeaked through three major extinctions. If any of the larger species had survived the K-T event, I am sure that mammals would have been kept as nocturnal insectivores, just like Nature intended… ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/7 "2000-06-01T23:27:46Z")
isn’t Celt a sockpuppet for either Pashley or CalifBoomer? weren’t they banned? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2000, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/8 "2000-06-01T23:43:14Z")
Please don’t resurrect Phaedrus. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2000, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/9 "2000-06-02T00:11:10Z")
You’re all missing the big question: **WHAT EFFECT DID THIS IMPACT HAVE ON THE FLINTSTONES!!???** Seriously, were Fred and Barney okay? Did they have to eat Dino during the worldwide havoc that must have ensued? Did pebbles and Bam-Bam reach adulthood? Inquiring minds want to know! ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2000, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/10 "2000-06-02T00:19:15Z")
Calm down Larry. I’ve done extensive research, and during _Dexter’s Laboratory_ a commercial answered your questions. The impactor was actually made of cinnamon rock, and the force of the impact created Cinnamon Pebbles. This also explains the sugar layer found in late Cretaceous stratigraphy. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2000, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/11 "2000-06-02T03:04:41Z")
[Moderator Hat: ON] Larry Borgia asked: > [@](#): > > isn’t Celt a sockpuppet for either Pashley or CalifBoomer? weren’t they banned? Yes, Boomer. Yes, he was banned. Yes, Celt has been rebanned. * * * David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator [Moderator Hat: OFF] ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2000, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/12 "2000-06-02T03:06:51Z")
Incidentally, Niles Eldredge discusses the idea of what would have happened to mammals if the meteor had missed us a little bit in his new book, _The Triumph of Evolution and the Failure of Creationism_. If I recall (I don’t have it handy), his basic statement was similar to DrF’s here. If they had not had the openings to move into, mammals would probably not have come to dominate. It was only when all the different areas were opened up by the loss of the dinos that somebody else could move in. The mammals took their shot. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2000, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/13 "2000-06-03T01:07:33Z")
Graeme wrote: > [@](#): > > If the dinosaurs hadn’t been taken out by a meteorite, mammals STILL would have dominated in time. Bigger brains and a different way to process thought, made mammals superior to cold blooded beasts. [ol] [li]We’re not sure dinosaurs were cold-blooded.[/li][li]The dinosaur genus _Troodon_ had a very large brain for its size (the brain as so large it left an impression on the inside of fossilized _Troodon_ skulls). This large brain mass was most likely used for processing visual information, to help _Troodon_ hunt in the dim twilight. It is not inconceivable that, had the K-T boundary event not occurred, _Troodon_ could have evolved into a really-big-brained, reasoning, toolmaking species that posted messages to electronic message boards.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2000, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/14 "2000-06-03T01:17:43Z")
On the Web, no one knows you’re a theropod… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2000, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-evolutionists/21106/15 "2000-06-03T01:26:18Z")
🙂