# Question for "Gun Nuts" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 8, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042 "2010-09-08T12:55:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/101 "2010-09-14T04:47:09Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > > [@handsomeharry](#): > > > > I also have to gag at your Marine training concept. Do you have a disability? Do this: shoot one person. Look around…are there any standing around? Shoot them. Look around…there are no more there. Even the highest druggie would blaze outta there, Helter Skelter or no, when the first one got blasted. > > The only thing out of a Hollywood movie in that scenario would be a culprit wanting to stick around against the home defender. Now, if you want to defend your home by leaping through the air, with both hands firing Uzis or Mac10s… > > > > Best wishes, > > hh > > I’ve got to disagree on that. The highest druggies would not necessarily blaze out. He or she could quite easily believe your weapon is a holiday noisemaker (or a candy dispenser) and that they have superpowers. Drugs tend to do that to people. The insane cannot be stopped by just a single shot either (unless it’s a head shot). Some gang members will wait for a hail of bullets to end and you have to reload if they have a strong reason to come after you and a lot of firepower on their side though this is not likely to happen in a home invasion. And as for the really professional criminals, if they want you, they’ll get you unless you go into witness protection. A hunting rifle is usually no match against what they can hire. OK, the highest druggie might not \*necessarily \*blaze out, but, the \*probability \*is more so in the go column rather than the stay, at least for a person that has the faculties to break into a home. And, blazing out may not be the exact moves they would make, yet, I am confident that a 9er going off will make him more docile. And, if you follow my instruction, the odds are that you are going to get at least one of the most stoned. Also, if I \*am \*wrong, OK, just fire a few into whoever is left standing! Win-Win! Same thing on the others. We may be quibbling over mites. And, my whole point isn’t that weapons make one invulnerable to death. My point is that a weapon gives you at least equal footing with somebody breaking into your house. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/102 "2010-09-14T05:55:27Z")
I have yet to hear of a defenseless dead homeowner from any form of home invasion that not having a weapon would have kept him alive. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/103 "2010-09-14T13:59:04Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > . Do I believe the federal government will ever try to confiscate weapons? Absolutely not, that would be political suicide in the United States. In fact, government confiscation or banning of firearms, is the one thing that I have completely no fear of ever happening. …and cause it is impossible. 1. There are too many guns in America. My own estimates are that there are at least 500 to 800 million guns in America. It is just too many. 2. Any process to remove guns from America, would have to start with disarming rich people, politicians, police and criminals first, and those 4 groups dont seem to be interested in disarming. 3. Past attempts at prohibition of alcohol and of drugs in America, were not very successful. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/104 "2010-09-14T14:00:05Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I have yet to hear of a defenseless dead homeowner from any form of home invasion that not having a weapon would have kept him alive. I would like to hear someone argue your very good point. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/105 "2010-09-14T14:09:53Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I have yet to hear of a defenseless dead homeowner from any form of home invasion that not having a weapon would have kept him alive. I really tried to parse that sentence and failed. Come again? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/106 "2010-09-14T14:15:12Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The insane cannot be stopped by just a single shot either (unless it’s a head shot). Some gang members will wait for a hail of bullets to end and you have to reload if they have a strong reason to come after you and a lot of firepower on their side though this is not likely to happen in a home invasion. I can absolutely guarantee that someone hit in the heart or spine with a large caliber round is not going to take very many further steps. And only a fool responds to intruders or assailants by panic firing off his entire magazine. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/107 "2010-09-14T15:15:14Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > > > The insane cannot be stopped by just a single shot either (unless it’s a head shot). Some gang members will wait for a hail of bullets to end and you have to reload if they have a strong reason to come after you and a lot of firepower on their side though this is not likely to happen in a home invasion. > > I can absolutely guarantee that someone hit in the heart or spine with a large caliber round is not going to take very many further steps. And only a fool responds to intruders or assailants by panic firing off his entire magazine. Plenty of people are fools especially among the group who think that just owning a rifle or handgun is enough to defend yourself. Newsflash handguns do not have that great of accuracy. Firearms are useful, but they do require training and practice. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/108 "2010-09-14T15:46:18Z")
17 hollow points should be enough for any normal bad guy situation. Hopefully none of them will ever be used, but this world is not 100% tame yet. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/109 "2010-09-14T16:08:44Z")
I thought gun nuts was what you got when you tried shooting from the hip without taking the recoil into consideration. It’s okay, I’ll leave quietly. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/110 "2010-09-14T16:27:53Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Plenty of people are fools especially among the group who think that just owning a rifle or handgun is enough to defend yourself. Newsflash handguns do not have that great of accuracy. Firearms are useful, but they do require training and practice. I’ll grant you that; owning a gun doesn’t make you an expert at self-defense any more than owning an axe makes you a lumberjack. But I would submit that most gun “nuts” (fanciers, collectors, gun rights advocates, etc.) know this and take seriously the responsibility of knowing how to keep and use a gun effectively and responsibly. I trained for and passed my state’s CCW requirements, and I wish I could afford to take continuing tactical training (I’m semi-employed for the time being). ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/111 "2010-09-14T16:30:22Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > 17 hollow points should be enough for any normal bad guy situation. Hopefully none of them will ever be used, but this world is not 100% tame yet. I had to settle for 15 round magazines, but they’re .40 caliber. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/112 "2010-09-14T17:47:25Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > > [@kushiel](#): > > > > Whoa whoa whoa. We’ve gone from home robberies to Charles Manson. Even if I had guns in my home and some training on the range, nothing short of Marine training would make me think I could take down multiple people. That’s something out of a Hollywood movie! > > > > A lot of this thread can also be influenced by where one lives. Here, it’s drugs and gang activity that get you killed. Random killings don’t happen. > > 1. Sharon Tate lived in a nice neighborhood. It does not matter where you live, a robber/rapist/murderer can break into any house. > > 2. “Marine training” needed against Leslie Van Houten and Susan Atkins? Are you kidding? Actually, If Sharon Tate had grabbed a revolver, and had used it against the intruders, you never would have heard of Charlie Manson. The 3 girls and a boy who broke into a home in 1968 and who “would” have been shot and killed by Sharon Tate would have been long forgotten by now, the names of the intruders never known, and Sharon and Roman Polanski would be living out their old age together in Palm Springs. > > You over estimate Leslie Van Houten, Patricia Krenwinkel and Susan Atkins. I would not need Marine training to eliminate them. A single 38 bullet into Lesli Van Houten would have put her down. Ditto for Pat and Sue. These girls were not street fighters, these girls were not superwomen. These girls were just kids who would have been scared out of their wits if a homeowner started shooting at them. You forget the guy there too. These people were nuts enough to kill that many people, they were nuts enough to go 3 on 1. And that’s assuming I shot the first one accurately enough to keep them from getting up. Hell, _I’m_ not much older than those girls, I’d be just as scared as you claim. I think we’re not going to see eye-to-eye on this. IIRC, you’re American, and I’m Canadian. My views on firearms are just way too different from yours. I can honestly say I don’t remember any cases of civilians killing someone with guns here. > [@handsomeharry](#): > > > [@kushiel](#): > > > > You know what my insurance against home invaders is? Home insurance. > > > > Someone breaks into my house, I’m going to lie on the floor with my hands up and tell them to take whatever the hell they want. If I give the home invaders what they want, they’ll take it and leave. I take out a weapon, I piss them off. I personally feel my odds of surviving are higher if I do what a person wants as opposed to trying to kill them. Take my stuff, the insurance will replace it. > > > > Now for situations that don’t involve robberies? I’m also willing to bet on the fact that most murders and murder-suicides out of high-crime areas are by people acquainted with each other. I personally don’t hang out with people who tend to be the type of people who get murdered where I live. > > Hey, **kushiel** , not trying to pick a fight, but you have some mighty big holes in your screen door! > > 1. If you consider what ‘insurance’ is, you will find that it is only an indemnification for losses. Is your life indemnifiable? The word is used, by gunowners, as an alternative to ‘home protection.’ These people want to be protected, not indemnified. > 2. If you give the home invaders what they want, they will do what they want. Can you give them ‘insurance’ that you won’t ID them in a trial? I bet they have a policy to cover that! > 3. If you take out a weapon, you aren’t supposed to give them a chance to get pissed off. You are supposed to kill them! Are you so worried about offending a person who has committed multiple felonies against you already? > 4. I am not sure that you know what type of people get murdered. I know of a preacher who got murdered in my city, I met a very nice middle aged man who lived next to my brother, who worked in a gas station, who got murdered, I knew a drug dealer who got murdered, etc…BTW, the preacher who got murdered did exactly what you would do in your scenario. IIRC, the newspaper used the term “trussed up like hogs.” Just sayin. > > All in all, people who take the non self defense routes leave the choice of how they die up to criminals. > > Best wishes, > hh You know that cartoon look where people get confused and tilt their heads to an extreme angle? That’s what I’m doing right now. I read the local newspapers every day. The only cases where the issue of getting knocked off before testifying are the gang cases. Christ, one of the founding members of a huge gang here decided to reform and his face has been plastered all over the media telling his story and he hasn’t been knocked off yet. I think it’s time for me to bow out of this thread. Where I live, right now, the idea of owning a gun for self-defense is unheard of. Not even the gangs have them, they use knives. I can’t relate to this stuff, maybe my opinion would be different if I lived somewhere with regular muggings and robberies and shootings. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/113 "2010-09-14T18:04:39Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I thought gun nuts was what you got when you tried shooting from the hip without taking the recoil into consideration. > > It’s okay, I’ll leave quietly. Hey, _I_ laughed. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/114 "2010-09-14T19:09:05Z")
I’ve no strong opinion on gun rights, so may not belong in this thread, but one comment caught my eye: > [@Rafe\_Hollister](#): > > It gives me great peace to know that no enemy will put soldiers on the ground here in the U.S. because there are 80 million people like me who would defend our towns with deer rifles, [etc.]. Since rational peope don’t worry about flying purple dinosaurs, it seems fair to assume you’d be able to point some potential enemy. If not our U.S. government itself, who? If your hypothetical enemy _is_ our own government, did you obfuscate your comment? ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/115 "2010-09-15T02:03:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > > [@Rafe\_Hollister](#): > > > > It gives me great peace to know that no enemy will put soldiers on the ground here in the U.S. because there are 80 million people like me who would defend our towns with deer rifles, [etc.]. > > Since rational people don’t worry about flying purple dinosaurs, it seems fair to assume you’d be able to point some potential enemy. If not our U.S. government itself, who? I wouldnt worry about not having an enemy, esp if the United States stops being the World Policeman. According to world history, there has never been any shortage of evil aggressive countries wanting to make war on others. The 20th century saw no shortages of foreign invaders (Japan), no shortages of foreign armies threatening a country with invasion (England), and no shortages of evil governments who murdered their own unarmed people (Stalin, Mao, Hitler, etc .) The worry-free armed civilians of the United States, of course, being a notable exception. I would pity any soldier who would be unlucky enough to draw duty to be an “occupying soldier” in the United States having 80 million deer rifles pointed at him. There is no army in the world that could occupy the United States. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/116 "2010-09-15T09:19:15Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > > [@septimus](#): > > > > Since rational people don’t worry about flying purple dinosaurs, it seems fair to assume you’d be able to point some potential enemy. If not our U.S. government itself, who? > > I wouldnt worry about not having an enemy, esp if the United States stops being the World Policeman. According to world history, there has never been any shortage of evil aggressive countries wanting to make war on others. If anyone seeks evidence that gun nuts aren’t very smart, this thread may help! 😃 Have you ever looked at a world map? Did you notice that large blue thing between North Korea and U.S.A. ? It’s called the Pacific Ocean. The allied invasion of Normandy has been called the “largest operation ever” and was undertaken from a large nearby platform, called Great Britain. But … whatever! Keep those deer rifles ready! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/117 "2010-09-15T13:17:53Z")
“You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.” is a quote by Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/118 "2010-09-15T19:05:58Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > > [@Susanann](#): > > > > I wouldnt worry about not having an enemy, esp if the United States stops being the World Policeman. According to world history, there has never been any shortage of evil aggressive countries wanting to make war on others. > > If anyone seeks evidence that gun nuts aren’t very smart, this thread may help! 😃 Stop the insulting remarks, septimus; they are not allowed in this forum. Even with the smiley, it still counts as nasty. **Ellen Cherry IMHO Moderator** ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/119 "2010-09-15T19:20:00Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.” is a quote by Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II. I read a very long time ago, that Soviet Premier Krushchev’s top generals told him the very same thing when they were discussing war with the United States. The Soviet generals said, sure, they could nuke the US all right, but they could not send in an army to mop up nor to occupy it… 80 million angry armed civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042/120 "2010-09-15T19:41:39Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > My question is, what are “gun nuts” ? “Gun nuts” is simply a name that liberals made up to call people who believe in the Second Amendment and who own guns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-gun-nuts/553042.md?page=7)