Be prepared. Can’t hurt, might help.
The police can’t be everywhere, and they often just show up after the crime to write reports and interview people. During a disaster they may or may not even be on duty.
Bullshit. Someone breaks into my home, he’s going to make noise. The noise will wake me up. If I had any weapons (damn boating accident), they would be in easy reach of my bed. So I’m armed, on familiar ground, facing a home invasion. Somebody is probably going to die, but it ain’t gonna be me.
Likewise, in a hurricane/disaster scenario, I’ll will be awake and guarding my property against looters. Would likely join with my neighbors for mutual support until order is restored.
Well. I own multiple weapons. Two in fact. The shotgun is for protection. The rifle is for fun. I live in a terraced home. My neighbors wouldn’t want me letting loose with the Garand in the house. I would also not feel comfortable loading it in time in that situation.
Gun locks are different - they genuinely do limit the home defense value of a weapon. It takes time to unlock. The keys are often very small and fiddly.
As to the tragedies - they are, indeed, tragedies. I would like to see laws enforced, and laws devised to prevent these situations happening. But in the end, a law abiding citizen’s right to protect him or herself is paramount. It’s a fundamental right, just like free speech, and sometimes there are costs to society of people having fundamental rights. The First Amendment gives us Fred Phelps, but it is still a good thing.
The law doesn’t “disarm private citizens”. Making claims like this is what leads to accusations of gun nuttery.
The law prohibits private citizens from carrying their firearms off their property during a state of emergency. They are perfectly within their rights to defend their homes from looters.
What makes you so sure?
And what about going to check on friends/relatives in other areas? Through places where there may be considerable public disorder? The mere fact of possessing a gun should not make someone a criminal. Unlawful use of the gun should make someone a criminal.
I’m an excellent shot, strongly inclined to protect myself and my property. Also a light sleeper. If a tomcat gets lucky within 100 yards of my home, I’d probably wake up from the noise. To enter my home without my consent, an intruder would have to either break glass or batter down a door. No way I’m going to sleep through that.
I know the terrain, the invader doesn’t. I know several positions where I can fire from cover at the invader, and my home is small enough that the range is going to be virtually point blank.
I enjoy shooting as a competitive sport, but my personal reasons for owning guns also include personal protection and the defense of my family and home/property. I do, in fact, gain a measure of peace from knowing I have the strongest defense available for my family. A small percentage of my gun ownership is influenced by the idea that an unarmed people are more likely to be subjected to tyranny. I’m rational enough in my worldview to understand that the chance of needing to use my guns against the U.S. government approaches zero (asymptotically, but it’s really close to zero).
I own three handguns and three rifles. I’m always ready to add to the collection when I have ready cash. I have equipment and supplies for loading my own ammunition - because it’s less expensive than constantly buying factory ammo. I teach my children firearms safety and how to shoot straight.
Any of the above might cause someone who has strong anti-gun feelings to label me a “gun-nut”. To me, a nut is someone who owns guns simply out of fear of the government. Like the people who have participated in the recent panic-buying of guns and ammo (driving up prices for the rest of us, you assholes!), in fear of “the Socialists” revoking the Second Amendment or any of a number of similar right-wing fear tactics.
I have fire extinguishers in every room of my house. Never needed them.
I have guns. Have needed them once.
The Northridge earthquake hit LA. Early evening in my ground floor apartment, I hear some rustling. I grab my pistol, step into my living room, and there is a large man coming through the window (he had already ripped the screen off). He stopped coming through the window and left the premises immediately while my wife called 911. He and a partner had already hit 3 units in our building.
I am not AFRAID of that happening again, but I am glad that my pistol was with me to convince him to leave. If he had been completely in the apartment, I would have shot him in defense of my life and my wife.
I am also not AFRAID of a fire, but I am glad I have my fire extinguishers in the house as well.
As for the rest, I also keep guns for fun, for hunting, for collecting, for teaching, etc. I can not envision when I would need parts of my collection for protection against tyranny, but I do think they could serve well in that context if properly deployed.
Gun Nuts -A novel by Ducati (sorry)
First, for the anti-gun folks, or just neutral by-standers, let’s define “gun-nut”.
Not because it offends me, but if you are honestly interested in knowing me and my kind, I think there is value in knowing that there are **many **flavors of gun folks besides Waiting-for-Armageddon-With-A-Pile-Of-Guns guy.
He’s a gun nut. Stockpiling dozens of weapons and 30k rounds of ammo because you’re going to hole up when the goverment comes for you/asteroids hit/nuclear winter/etc… seems a bit far-fetched to me. I’m in Emergency Management, and I’ve got food, water, and supplies to last a while, mostly in case winter storms or extended power outages. I will need more shotun shells if we have any Zombie difficulties.
The rest of us - the vast majority- are just gun guys and gals who like shooting, hunting, collecting and protecting. Frankly those guys who collect Mausers, or have 23 1911’s, all virtually the same are just as silly/crazy/foolish as you people who collect Lladro or Hummel figurines. More power to ya, but not my cup of tea.
My guns, like my cars, motorcycles, are tools to do a job, but they’re fun to “play” with as well.
Sure, a Ford Focus or VW bug will get you to the store and work just fine, but some of us want to do it with more style or a lot faster. You don’t NEED a Porche 911 or an Audi A-8 or (insert virtually any other vehicle here), but it sure is fun to step on the gas isn’t it?
I don’t hunt, but I do like target shooting, clay sports, and so forth. My main personal reason for owning firearms is self-defense. It’s a very rare occasion that I need to point a weapon at someone. In the last 25 years, I’ve done it 4 times to stop an attack on myself or others. No shots fired - just seeing the weapon was enough to calm things down. This happens as many as 2.5 million times a year here in America.
Cite
Now you may argue the actual numbers, but you can’t just deny that this kind of thing happens all the time, and why the hell would you deny anyone the right to defend themselves?
I don’t have a car crash often, but I prepare by wearing a seat belt, and having insurance to repair my car or people involved. While the possibility of being in a crash is remote on an **individual **basis, the goverment and car manufacturers recognize that cars collide thousands of times a day across the country, so they mandate seatbelts, airbags, and other safety features in our cars.
You can drive your car for 15 years without a collision, but that airbag is there to protect you anytime, anywhere.
I don’t lie awake at night, worried about cat-rapers or milk-carton goons(guilty),
but I am as prepared as I can be should someone enter my dwelling unbidden.
We have bright lights, locked doors, an alarm system, highly-trained German tripping-systems (Dachsunds), and firearms in that order.
As I drive around and wander the world, I (and the mrs.) are packing heat. No one ever knows, yet should should a statiscally unlikely event happen to us - carjacking, ATM robbery, road-rage, cat-raper - I and those around me are unlikely to become victims, because of my training, my attitude, and if needed, a firearm to deter or stop the attacker.
Yes, occasionally a selfish/insane/angry person uses a gun to hurt or kill others, and I promise you that gun-owners like me abhor this as much or more than anyone. We work with different groups to ensure that only good guys have guns. We don’t want to face a criminal any more than you do.
Carrying or owning a gun doesn’t make us feel big, important, or bullet-proof.
We don’t pick fights just because we know we have a gun. Quite the opposite; any CCW permit holder knows that even a “good” shoot will be a traumatic, expensive, long-lasting, life-changing experience. It’s the last thing any of us wants.
Still, it beats getting shot for your wallet.
It just evens the odds a bit should we encounter someone who would harm us.
I know I speak for the vast majority of gun-owners when I denounce gun violence; we’re all just regular people with families like you, after all.
We just have decided that we will not be a victim, should we be thrust into a bad situation.
If you don’t want to own, use, or carry a gun, that’s fine.
I’m a nice guy, and I choose to. I really don’t like those who say I can’t or I shouldn’t.
I’m not your problem, and neither are my guns.
Criminals are your problem, and I think we should work hard on making them less so.
My solutions lean to the Draconian, so I’ll defer to others for this until I’m Emporer.
Bwa-hahahaha.
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I don’t need multiple weapons, but who the fuck are you to tell me what I can and can’t legally have? Maybe I just like them. Again, none of your business.
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History has proven that gun grabbers are insideous. Give in an inch and it’s over.
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Yes, they are tragedies. So are bus crashes, plane crashes, and kids drowning in swimming pools. So what? Guns aren’t going to disappear. Deal with it. Nuts are going to find ways of hurting people no matter what you do.
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Guns are tools. No more.
[quote=“Agent_Foxtrot, post:20, topic:553042”]
I own multiple guns for multiple reasons. Any of them can be used for “protection.” The go-to is the .45 or the .38, both kept in a handgun safe under my bed, loaded and ready.
I don’t oppose locking up your guns in the home or storing ammo separately. That’s just basic common sense. I think it’s a little “nanny-state-ish” to have a LAW telling me to do so. Nor do I oppose the 10-day waiting period - though in truth, it is possible in our modern era for the background check to be nigh-instantaneous.
Tragedies involving guns are not necessarily going to be reduced by making it harder for law-abiding people to get guns. Let’s face it: the only people who are impacted by laws restricting guns are the people who obey them, right? Criminals are not affected by any law, by definition. And I’ll go one better: any of the three incidents you cite could have been stopped early by any of the people on the scene carrying a weapon and being ready to use it. If a teacher at Columbine had been packing a pistol, those two little trenchcoated morons could have been popped straight off before they did much damage. Same for the VT shooting, though then it could have been a student.
Guns should not be as easy to buy as milk. You are correct: they are weapons, they are not toys. However, you are slightly mistaken: guns do not kill people. They are tools with the potential to kill people when used.
And the reason I don’t buy a BB gun to target shoot? The same reason I don’t buy comic books as porn. There are better things available.
Here we go again.
My fears and yours are, probably, broadly similar in about the same proportions.
Not really, no.
Unlikely in the extreme that I’d be able to do anything about it with my shotgun in any case. =P
Right now? Enjoyment. I just went out a week ago and shot about 200 rounds with a good friend, we tore up an entire case of those evil orange frisbees and it was a lot of fun doing a high-skills outdoors activity.
Where I used to live, and hope to one day live again? There are not very many methods for removing a raccoon, skunk, or, god forbid, a 300±lb bear from your property (or, in multiple cases (at least one a year) in my parents’ hometown, from your freakin’ kitchen) without a reasonably high-caliber firearm.
I think your premise is essentially faulty–most gun owners that I know own their firearms for protection from wildlife or recreation.
With regard to “multiple types of weapons”–it’s like owning one wrench, in some cases. A good firearm for a home defense scenario is not the same as a good carry weapon is not the same as a good hunting weapon (specific for game) is not the same as a good recreational weapon.
I’m a pretty gun nutty guy, in that I am absolutely adamant on the right to own firearms of whatever type with minimal government interference in my purchases. I own two guns right now–a fowling shotgun (with a 18" home defense barrel that frankly spends most of its time in the gun safe, as the typical threat to my home involves me hosing down drunk college students who piss in my bushes on their way by.) and a .22 rifle for competition target shooting. My next two guns are likely to be a bear revolver and a tactical competition pistol.
Oops, sorry: tags got messed up in my snip, and I missed the edit window to repair the attributions.
I think the idea that it’s a matter of active worry is part of what you’re not understanding. Do you “worry” about getting in a car wreck? Probably not. Do you consider the possibility enough to make certain choices regarding air bags, crash-worthiness, and seat belts? Almost certainly.
Similar things apply to most gun owners who carry for personal defense–they are not “worried” about it, in the active looking-over-their-shoulder sense. They have, at least the ones I know and the ones you’re likely to encounter on the Dope, evaluated the risks of firearms ownership vs. the potential benefits of firearms ownership and come to a different conclusion than you have.
In particular, I think the biggest disconnect is that for some of us, myself included, the kinds of skills useful in a gunfight are actually a heck of a lot of fun to practice on a closed course. In addition to my regular firearms, I’ve got a bit of cash invested in some automatic Airsoft guns, and getting up into the woods with my camos and my AK-47 lookalike that shoots rapid-fire BBs is a highlight any time I get to do it. Tactical pistol courses are the same way, and at the point in my life where I’ve become skilled enough to succeed on a tac pistol course that radically changes the risk/reward calculus of carrying that pistol, at least in the semi-subjectivity of my mind.
I still don’t carry a pistol, given I live in a ridiculously safe area and the risk of mistakes is too high to justify the firepower. If I lived in Baltimore? Probably I’d think differently. If I didn’t enjoy firearms training as a separate hobby? Probably I’d come to the same conclusion you did.
Well, I certainly don’t consider myself a “nut”–I wouldn’t even say that I particularly like guns, though I enjoy the skill involved in making a good shot. But I was cited in the OP, so I guess I should put in a couple cents’ worth.
I’m not “afraid,” really. I just like to be prudent and prepared. In the context of the other thread, I was specifically talking about a situation in which civil authority was virtually disappeared, resources were scarce, and lots of people were getting desperate.
I live in a heavily forested part of a big outdoorsy state where a lot of people own weapons, primarily for hunting. My neighbors own multiple firearms, their wives own them and most of their kids over 14 have their own guns too. My next door neighbor has a little firing range in his back yard and I would never think of calling the cops on him for shooting. I would become a pariah in my own neighborhood. People here are knowledgable and comfortable with the idea of people owning guns. Because they are no more dangerous than any other tool.
I count 11 rifles and handguns just for my wife and I, and no, we are not collectors. My grown sons also have several and one son has a concealed carry permit, why? Because he can, no real other reason. We don’t feel threatened but a bad guy would be foolish to break into my home. I would probably call the cops but my wife would definately shoot first, it’s the red hair I think.
Agent Foxtrot, you are uncomfortable with the idea of firearms. But it is a big, big country and your fear is making you small, small minded. You fear that which you don’t understand.
You are not in any danger from a responsible gun owner.
The people who would do such things are not going to be detered by any of these measures, they are going to circumvent them. These attempts only offer the illusion of control. You could get more restrictions placed on gun ownership and you could feel better about something you do not, and never will understand, and it won’t make you any safer.
I don’t worry excessively about being attacked or having my home invaded (although it happened once). So what’s my personal emotional investment in the issue? I would have to say it’s ultimately resentment at the thought of being told I’m forbidden to own a gun. I am libertarian in outlook and hate the idea of authority basically saying “Shut up and do what you’re told, you goddamn peasant”.
Actually, it’s the other way around. A supper power like the Soviet Union broke apart because it wasn’t possible to put enough boots on the ground. Angry mobs are targets, individuals are not.
There isn’t the tiniest possibility the US government would survive attacking it’s own citizens if there was a popular uprising. All the toys used by the military to break things would be useless without a target.
Okay, Rambo.