# Question for lawyers **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 9, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179 "2005-11-09T05:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/1 "2005-11-09T05:55:58Z")
First of all, this is not a flame despite how it may be phrased but an honest-to-goodness question. I know there are many lawyers on SDMB. Considering that a JD is considered a professional degree equivalent to a LL.B (Bachelor of Laws) and is followed by a LL.M (Master of Laws) then the terminal degree SJD (Doctor of Juridicial Science) or an LL.D (Doctor of Laws [usually honorary]) _and_ that the ABA now holds that holders of JDs should not be addressed as Dr. Xxxxxxxx, how many of you with JDs call yourself/expect to be called Dr.? By the way, I know that if you google this that many universities consider the JD a terminal degree for the purpose of hiring. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/2 "2005-11-09T05:57:53Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > how many of you with JDs call yourself/expect to be called Dr.? In my experience, absolutely none. Unless you’re screwing around with your friends who went to med school. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/3 "2005-11-09T17:13:23Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > Considering that a JD is considered a professional degree equivalent to a LL.B (Bachelor of Laws) and is followed by a LL.M (Master of Laws) then the terminal degree SJD (Doctor of Juridicial Science) or an LL.D (Doctor of Laws [usually honorary]) _and_ that the ABA now holds that holders of JDs should not be addressed as Dr. Xxxxxxxx, how many of you with JDs call yourself/expect to be called Dr.? None, except a select few who don’t realize that they’re probably going to be mocked mercilessly for it. Even in law school we avoided calling instructors “doctor” this or that and just went with “professor,” except for the one non-lawyer instructor who held a phd. I know a few lawyers who will jokingly refer to each other as “doctor” in passing, but generally it’s just not done. ---
**Author:** ![mazinger\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@mazinger\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazinger_z)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/4 "2005-11-09T18:37:53Z")
I also only call myself “doctor” when I’m tooling around with my PhD or MD friends. Occassionally, I use it at the bars (pre-girlfriend, who doesn’t think it’s funny) or to be snarky when I tell people I have a doctorate. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/5 "2005-11-09T20:51:10Z")
In the entire time I have been an attorney, during the entire time I have been around attorneys (a longer time, given law school), I’ve **never** heard an attorney be called “doctor,” nor have I ever heard any attorney claim that he/she **should** be called “doctor.” Indeed, I don’t usually think of my self as having a “doctorate.” I prefer the term “professional degree” which I see on some forms. Personally, I’ve always thought the honorific “doctor” should be reserved for those who are “doctors” in the medical sense; calling someone with a Ph.D. “doctor” is pretty silly, in my opinion; it creates confusion and the achievement isn’t that rare, any more. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/6 "2005-11-09T20:54:27Z")
All of the above is true. However, lawyers do appreciate being addressed as “Doctor Love” in appropriate settings. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/7 "2005-11-09T21:11:26Z")
To the OP: I have a J.D., and I never expect to be called doctor because I have a J.D. Likewise, I know of no lawyer who does expect such . > [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I’ve always thought the honorific “doctor” should be reserved for those who are “doctors” in the medical sense; calling someone with a Ph.D. “doctor” is pretty silly, in my opinion; it creates confusion and the achievement isn’t that rare, any more. What about someone with an Ed.D.? Still, I think you’re right, I went to my English professor and she could do nothing to help me with my acid reflux. I was so confused. I mean she is a doctor? Seriously though, confusion for whom? Golddiggers, elitist pricks who will only associate with other physicians . . . and what does rarity have to do with it? big ol’ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/8 "2005-11-09T21:18:00Z")
Um, no. Never. I don’t even Esq. myself. But when people ask me if having a law degree in the U.S. means that I have a “masters” I usually tell them that over here it’s a doctorate, albeit a “ghetto doctorate.” The only lawyer I know who gets called “Dr.” once in a while also had an M.D. in addition to his JD. So it wasn’t inappropriate. Ditto my friends in official JD/MD program starting residency and getting called Dr. for their medical degree. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/9 "2005-11-09T21:40:15Z")
IANAL, but I’ve never seen my lawyer friends (yes, I do have some!) look for any special form of address. It may be a regional affectation, but I have noted in upstate New York that one lawyer addressing another publicly (i.e., in front of others) in a semi-formal setting will use “Counselor” as a form of direct address, apparently in a complimentary mode. Is that at all common elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/10 "2005-11-09T21:55:29Z")
I’ve only seen a lawyer addressed as ‘Doctor’ in one context: A friend occasionally teaches economics courses at the undergraduate level at a local college. She doesn’t have an advanced degree in economics, but the students are so used to calling their instructors ‘Doctor’ that she accepts it (although she hates it). ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/11 "2005-11-09T23:45:46Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > IANAL, but I’ve never seen my lawyer friends (yes, I do have some!) look for any special form of address. It may be a regional affectation, but I have noted in upstate New York that one lawyer addressing another publicly (i.e., in front of others) in a semi-formal setting will use “Counselor” as a form of direct address, apparently in a complimentary mode. Is that at all common elsewhere? Very much so. It’s the non-hip way of saying “what up, playa?” ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/12 "2005-11-09T23:47:15Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] This is more of a survey, so to IMHO. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/13 "2005-11-10T00:16:22Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Personally, I’ve always thought the honorific “doctor” should be reserved for those who are “doctors” in the medical sense; calling someone with a Ph.D. “doctor” is pretty silly, in my opinion; it creates confusion and the achievement isn’t that rare, any more. I understand what you’re saying, but to be fair, the academics had the title first. The whole reason medical professionals are called “doctor” is because at some point the medical profession did what the legal profession did more recently: borrow the honorific from academia for the holders of their professional degree. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/14 "2005-11-10T01:00:13Z")
After graduating, outside of the hall (with our immediate family and friends) and on the way to the parking lots, my classmates and friends and I referred to each other as “Dr.” (You’re wearing the gown, you have the hood, you’re free. FREE!) By the time we got in our cars to drive wherever we were going next, the novelty had worn off. So, no, never again. ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/15 "2005-11-10T01:48:53Z")
I have taken a few law courses in my master’s program, not in law, so please excuse me if I say this wrong. In my Constitutional Law class, I had a lady who had an LLD degree. At one point in class, she was asked about this. As best as I can recall her answer, it was that a JD prepared you for the practice of law. The issue of whether a \*\*Juris Doctor \*\* should be called “Doctor” in a professional setting was NOT addressed, though. What she did say was that an LLD (Doctor of Laws) was a research degree, requiring a dissertation, and while it would be correct to refer to her in a professional setting as “Doctor,” it would not be correct to refer to her as “Counsellor” or for her to put “Esquire” after her name. My take on this was that hers was a research, scientific degree, while the JD was a terminal, practicing, degree. I mean no offense to anyone, I am just repeating what I remember. If nothing else, I think that the LLD and JD degrees are definitely different, whatever that exact difference is. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/16 "2005-11-10T01:52:20Z")
I have both a Ph.D. and a J.D., and I still don’t use “Doctor.” ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/17 "2005-11-10T03:52:24Z")
Personally, I require people to refer to me by the honorific “El Fabuloso”. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/18 "2005-11-10T16:20:41Z")
> [@LiveOnAPlane](#): > > I have taken a few law courses in my master’s program, not in law, so please excuse me if I say this wrong. > > In my Constitutional Law class, I had a lady who had an LLD degree. At one point in class, she was asked about this. As best as I can recall her answer, it was that a JD prepared you for the practice of law. The issue of whether a \*\*Juris Doctor \*\* should be called “Doctor” in a professional setting was NOT addressed, though. > > What she did say was that an LLD (Doctor of Laws) was a research degree, requiring a dissertation, and while it would be correct to refer to her in a professional setting as “Doctor,” it would not be correct to refer to her as “Counsellor” or for her to put “Esquire” after her name. > > My take on this was that hers was a research, scientific degree, while the JD was a terminal, practicing, degree. > > I mean no offense to anyone, I am just repeating what I remember. If nothing else, I think that the LLD and JD degrees are definitely different, whatever that exact difference is. That’s interesting; the LL.D is a relatively rare degree in the United States. Usually the degree track goes Juris Doctor (J.D.), Master of Laws (LL.M), and then the really rare Doctor of the Science of Jurisprudence (J.S.D). From what I understand (okay, what I got off Wikipedia). The LL.D. is usually an honorary degree in the U.S., from what I understand (okay, from what I got off Wikipedia). Was your instructor from outside the states? ---
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/19 "2005-11-10T22:22:42Z")
Never even thought about calling myself or being called “doctor” for my JD-and never heard it amongst any collegues I don’t use Esq., but you see that correspondence. I call my cohorts “counselor” in a mock-formal way–that’s the term used in the courtroom where the judge and clerks and folks don’t know everyone’s name. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179/20 "2005-11-10T23:03:49Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > That’s interesting; the LL.D is a relatively rare degree in the United States. Usually the degree track goes Juris Doctor (J.D.), Master of Laws (LL.M), and then the really rare Doctor of the Science of Jurisprudence (J.S.D). From what I understand (okay, what I got off Wikipedia). The LL.D. is usually an honorary degree in the U.S., from what I understand (okay, from what I got off Wikipedia). Was your instructor from outside the states? Wow, I just reread this. I even previewed it, from what I understand. How about: “That’s interesting; the LL.D is a relatively rare degree in the United States. Usually the degree track goes Juris Doctor (J.D.), Master of Laws (LL.M), and then the really rare Doctor of the Science of Jurisprudence (J.S.D). From what I understand (okay, what I got off Wikipedia), the LL.D. is usually an honorary degree in the U.S. Was your instructor from outside the states?” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-lawyers/330179.md?page=2)