# Question for liberal dopers age 50 to 55 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162 "2005-07-26T02:38:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/61 "2005-07-26T20:50:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Again, much truth there. Anyone who says that they "loathe the military…\ Huh? Of all of the candidates we are speaking of, who among them loathed the military? That would be political suicide, as well as just plain stupid. I doubt that any of the candidates “loathed” the military. We have a CIC who seems to like to play soldier at present. But I doubt he loathes soldiers. I coubt he thinks of them at all. We do know that he thinks about Iraq every day. This is big of him and should be encouraged. Has the ending of Bush2’s military “career” ever been satisfactorily settled? Or is that, like so much of the rest of his earlier life, under wraps in his Daddy’s library? As to the rest, where to start? Obviously I have confused the issue here, sorry about that. I was 10 when McGovern ran, so that one’s right out. For some reason, I cannot recall the name of the Dem candidate against Reagan in '84. I voted for Carter in 1980 and was proud to do so. I think now, post-Presidency, that he has done alot of good in the world. I also think he was too much a thinker, and too mild mannered for President. Someone like him even getting into a primary is unthinkable at this point, which is too bad, because we need thinkers now, as well as patient people–I am not saying I would want Carter for president now, but I see no reason to denigrate the man. Aha! Mondale. Cripes, I thought early Alzeimer’s had set in there for a minute…anyhoo, I voted for him (and I don’t live in Massachusetts). **Biffy** --Believe me, I don’t claim that Ronnie was intelligent or made good decisions. I think he was an affable, sheltered, clueless old gent. But the “gent” part’s important–he had the polish needed to fill the role. At least, he looked good. Dole also looked the part(and was more the part), and had a brain to boot, but he didn’t win the hearts and minds of the voters. I meant what I said: Reagan could _play_ the role of statesman well. He could also make his point in a genial, but direct manner. W pouts or spouts, depending on the situation. To hear a Head of State say something like, “well, he’s my friend and I don’t like to hear my friend run down” (re; Gonzales) is pathetic and embarassing. Bush2 has the mindset of a junior high school playground. He so reminds me of the drunk at the country club–the one who makes off color jokes and hits people up for drinks, but never buys a round himself. I grew up with Georges. **Shodan** --I think you are unsure of the purpose of this thead. The OP wanted to know if people who remembered life under Reagan thought it better or worse than nowadays. Where does Clinton come into that equation? If you feel the need for how your life is so much better under Bush2 thread, by all means, start one. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/62 "2005-07-26T21:20:12Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I was 10 when McGovern ran, so that one’s right out. For some reason, I cannot recall the name of the Dem candidate against Reagan in '84. Walter Mondale. Remember “Grits and Fritz”? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/63 "2005-07-26T21:42:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, what you are saying is that there is no proof beyond cutting and pasting a long series of accusations from an unattributed website? > > I didn’t think so. > > Regards, > Shodan You can Google, just like I did, just like anyone else can. Search for the words George Bush cocaine. But, even without the links listed, I brought more to the table than you did. I will grab the links later and post them here. Then you can call them all “liberal spin” at your leisure. We’re still waiting for cites and or proof for your claims about all those Democrat evildoers while we’re at it. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/64 "2005-07-26T21:44:48Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Has the ending of Bush2’s military “career” ever been satisfactorily settled? Or is that, like so much of the rest of his earlier life, under wraps in his Daddy’s library? Never was. It was swept away, and some documents have “disappeared”. However, for your own entertainment, [awolbush.com](http://awolbush.com) may still be up. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/65 "2005-07-26T23:08:34Z")
Here are the linked Bush drug abuse cites I promised earlier, with whatever headline or paragraph heading was associated with each. The last one, from CNN has Bush himself admitting it. > [@FromAGoogleSearchAnyoneCouldHaveDoneForThemselves](#): > > ## [http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#drunk](http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#drunk) Convicted of Drunk Driving, and Lied to Cover It Up Avoided the Vietnam War Just didn’t show up for a year – with no punishment. 8. Skipped all his medical exams after they started drug tests. with a tasty link too [http://www.realchange.org/bushgrnd.gif](http://www.realchange.org/bushgrnd.gif) Party Hearty: Sex, Drugs, And Rock 'N Roll? COCAINE Bush Jr.'s Evasive Responses > > ## [http://www.progress.org/archive/drc12.htm](http://www.progress.org/archive/drc12.htm) Governor Bush’s Cocaine Problem > > ## [http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000551.html](http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000551.html) George Bush’s Cocaine Accusations Resurface > > ## [http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm\_objectid=14609301&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=bush--took-cocaine-at-camp-david--name\_page.html](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14609301&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=bush--took-cocaine-at-camp-david--name_page.html) BUSH ‘TOOK COCAINE AT CAMP DAVID’ > > [http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/cocaine/](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/cocaine/) > Book: Bush was arrested for cocaine in 1972 > Texas author J.H. Hatfield claims the Republican front-runner did community service at a Houston center. > > * * * > > ## By Salon Staff Oct. 18, 1999 | A new book by Texas author J.H. Hatfield claims that George W. Bush was arrested for cocaine possession in 1972, but had his record expunged with help from his family’s political connections. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/21/bush.tapes/](http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/21/bush.tapes/) > Doug Wead – a former aide to President Bush’s father, George H.W. Bush – recorded about nine hours of conversations with the Texas governor while he was considering his run for the White House. > **On the tapes, the president appears to admit to past drug use** and says he won’t join some conservative Christians he sees as “kicking gays.” > The tapes, first featured in a New York Times article on Sunday, have raised eyebrows – not only about Bush’s comments, but also Wead’s motives for releasing them. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/66 "2005-07-26T23:11:50Z")
> [@no screen name for now](#): > > White working? Maybe we should all join the American White Working People party instead? Oh here we go again. The mandate. Election. Be more like us. Busg won by a whopping FIFTY ONE percent. For a wartime president AND an incmbent, that sucks. > > Dredging up old elections is bullshit and you know it. It just poves some people are too stupid to vote. > > You need to look at your own party, without prejudice, and then explain why you feel no shame for supporting them. Ummm, Steve…didn’t JFK win the presidency by the closest vote in American history? [/QUOTE] I have no idea, I was just a kid back then and was completely uninterested in politics (maybe I was happier for it). But he had one big thing in his favor… he was “prettier” than Nixon and the camera was kinder to him than it was to Nixon. Working aginst him on the other hand was the “worry” that as a Catholic, he would be taking orders from the Pope. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/67 "2005-07-26T23:15:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > True enough. Darn that Clinton for promising to join ROTC and then backing out. > Again, much truth there. Anyone who says that they “loathe the military”, or would smear someone as having gone AWOL - that crosses the line. > > Glad to see we are eye to eye on this. > > Regards, > Shodan Hmmmm. we agree on these things. Maybe there is a middle ground after all 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/68 "2005-07-26T23:58:53Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > And apparently you’re one of them. Now, goodbye. You’ve wasted enough of my time. “I know you are but what am I?” Nice comeback you got there, shortpants. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/69 "2005-07-27T03:06:32Z")
I’m glad that this thread has elevated the level of political discourse around here. 🙂 > [@SteveG1](#): > > Here are the linked Bush drug abuse cites I promised earlier, with whatever headline or paragraph heading was associated with each. The last one, from CNN has Bush himself admitting it. No one disputes the pot charge, but you’re never going to prove the cocaine charge, which is what Shodan was talking about. Frankly, I don’t really care. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of friends I have who’ve never done cocaine (and I have lots of friends). Do you seriously expect any politician to admit he did cocaine? It took us this long to get past the marijuana taboo. It’ll take another generation or two to break the cocaine barrier. ---
**Author:** ![Thin\_Lizzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@Thin\_Lizzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thin_Lizzy)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/70 "2005-07-27T04:09:12Z")
For all you Bush hating Dems out there, if you think you can run the country better, _ **start winning an elections!** _ ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/71 "2005-07-27T04:36:18Z")
Just _an_ elections? Not manys? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/72 "2005-07-27T05:01:35Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Just _an_ elections? Not manys? Naw, that was just a typo, our new pal meant _a_ elections. ---
**Author:** ![Thin\_Lizzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@Thin\_Lizzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thin_Lizzy)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/73 "2005-07-27T05:06:23Z")
Guess I asked for that one 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/74 "2005-07-27T05:08:38Z")
> [@Thin Lizzy](#): > > … if you think you can run the country better… Would you mind setting the bar a bit higher? A bit old for limbo contests. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/75 "2005-07-27T06:21:34Z")
Hey, you Dems out there! If you think you can run the country any better, pass a law requiring a paper trail! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/76 "2005-07-27T06:35:06Z")
Sorry. You have too few legislators now to be passing any laws. Bwahahahaha! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/77 "2005-07-27T12:04:38Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m glad that this thread has elevated the level of political discourse around here. 🙂 > > No one disputes the pot charge, but you’re never going to prove the cocaine charge, which is what Shodan was talking about. Frankly, I don’t really care. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of friends I have who’ve never done cocaine (and I have lots of friends). Do you seriously expect any politician to admit he did cocaine? It took us this long to get past the marijuana taboo. It’ll take another generation or two to break the cocaine barrier. Just to be a flippant smart ass for a bit. under the “new rules and methods of politics”, we don’t have to. All we have to do is get the whispers going and use the right weasel words (preferrably through an “uindepndent and deniable” source. I cited a few articles, and that sometimes is enough (when its “your” side doing the citing. CNN was one of the cites, and that one included the Wead interviews. Those nterviews have Bush himself admitting drug use. Isn’t his own admission proof? What is needed? A sworn affadivait and a xerox of arrest warrants? Funny how Swiftboaters lies become truth just because they sadi it. Funny how Shodan’s accusations agaisnt Ted Kennedy are trugh just because he made them (still waiting for proof there). If one side has to give ironclad proof, so does the other. If one side can make claims or make shit up, so can the other. Or are Fox News and Free Republic the only allowable sources? Careful how you set that rule, because I will hold “your” side to it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/78 "2005-07-27T12:38:21Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Hmmmm. we agree on these things. Maybe there is a middle ground after all 🙂 ust to clarify, we are talking about “Christmas in Cambodia” and “wasn’t wounded enough”. Right? Because the AWOL accusation against The Leader still stands. Stil waiting for your proof for your claims. Since the bar has been raised for what passes for cites and proof, I think you should comply also. Otherwise, just go away. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/79 "2005-07-27T12:49:04Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Huh? Of all of the candidates we are speaking of, who among them loathed the military? That would be [Bill Clinton.](http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/thrise/93/id88.htm) > [@SteveG1](#): > > Stil waiting for your proof for your claims. Since the bar has been raised for what passes for cites and proof, I think you should comply also. Don’t be absurd. If anonymous accusations by unnamed sources are good enough for Bush, then they are good enough for everyone else. It is therefore definitely proven that Clinton had a bunch of people murdered, that Kennedy was having an affair with Kopechne and that she was pregnant by him when she died, etc., etc. You wanna play that game? Both sides get a turn. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162/80 "2005-07-27T13:31:22Z")
The endless stream of partisan driveby _tu quoque_ attempts, underived from the world of reality, from **Shodan** continues apace. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-liberal-dopers-age-50-to-55/314162.md?page=5)