# Question for my fellow Catholics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741 "2003-03-16T06:02:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/1 "2003-03-16T06:02:59Z")
For this thread, I would mainly like to hear from currently practicing Catholics. OK, I’m not a very good Catholic, one way, is that I very rarely go to Sunday mass. I only go out of a sense of obligation, and when I am in church, unless I force myself to concentrate, my thoughts are something like “I just thought of a great idea for a computer program. Wow, that girl over there is cute. Hmmm, that guy sure is balding. Oh look, a coworker. Hope this service ends soon. Oh man, after today, I have to go back to work.” And I also think about TV shows I recently watched. So, is missing mass still a mortal sin? I mean, I can see God looking at murderers, rapists, and torturers and considering sending them to hell, but am I to really believe that after death, I’ll hear him say “I don’t know if I should let you up here, after all, you did miss some Sunday Masses.”? So, I guess this is two questions. 1. How bad of a Catholic am I for not wanting to go to mass, and when I’m there, being bored. 2. Is missing Sunday mass still considered a mortal sin? ---
**Author:** ![Logical\_Phallacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Logical\_Phallacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logical_Phallacy)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/2 "2003-03-16T06:44:08Z")
Hi Joel, I’m not cathlolic but I am most fascinated with the philosophy of religion. I’m an athiest discordian jew who gave up school to study in israel and lived to tell the tale. I have some pretty far-out concepts bout god which you may or may not find helpful, but i digress: 1. Do you think that if the all powerful creator of the universe really thought it was important for you to be in a particular building at a particular time, you could possibly be somewhere else? God is everywhere, and if your aware of this little-known fact, you will realize that churches serve but as an important reminder of his existence, nothing more. I assure you most ppl are bored when they sit through drawn-out religous services, even the most devote theists are probably just blankly staring at their bibles whilst contemplating the football game or sex. 1. god loves everyone, irregardless of the social-control mechanism known as sin. * * * Alternate solutions to your moral dilema: Look for a different church/community that resonates with you more closely. Look for a different god that resonates with you more closely. Look for a different lie to tell yourself. ---
**Author:** ![dino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e95f7d/32.png) [@dino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dino)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/3 "2003-03-16T14:32:58Z")
**Joel** , On point number 1, I dont think its a case of you being a bad catholic if you dont go to mass - in a lot of cases, it is probarbly because of the person presiding who is doing this constantly in almsost a rote manner, that is not putting any effort into engaging the congregation before him. When and if you do experience a service that you feel very much part of and involved in, you see the way that things could and perhaps could be all the time. I think that a lot of times when you are at a service that you do not feel part of, it is almost stepping back in time to pre vatican ll days when the priest did his bit on behalf of the rest of us and the people were just the audience. That still happens a lot today, but says more about the effort put in by the priest or person organising it. What should be happening is that a community of people should be organising our liturgies and in that way hopefully reaching a lot more of us. On point number 2, (see point number 1!). I dont think that it is a mortal sin to skip Sunday mass any more (though it is a little bit of a grey area) - even from reading the new catechism it is not spelled out clearly. In the end of the day, if you only have access to a service that makes you feel alienated, then I think the responsibility for you not going lies with the presider of this in a way. In the original gatherings for ‘mass’, there were 4 parts, gathering together as a united group, telling our story, sharing a meal and going home feeling renewed and strengthened. When you do feel this, it is wonderful, if you dont, then I would go with **Logical Phallacy** and find a different parish… ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/4 "2003-03-16T15:43:09Z")
The Catholic Church [teaches](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm#III) with regard to mortal sin the following: [quote] That the act of the sinner may be imputed to him it is not necessary that the object which terminates and specifies his act should be directly willed as an ends or means. It suffices that it be willed indirectly or in its cause, i.e. if the sinner foresees, at least confusedly, that it will follow from the act which he freely performs or from his omission of an act. When the cause produces a twofold effect, one of which is directly willed, the other indirectly, the effect which follows indirectly is morally imputable to the sinner when these three conditions are verified:[ul][li]first, the sinner must foresee at least confusedly the evil effects which follow on the cause he places;[/li][li]second, he must be able to refrain from placing the cause;[/li][li]third, he must be under the obligation of preventing the evil effect.[/ul][/li][/quote] So, the answer rests with you. Do _you_ see an evil effect resulting from your missing mass? Do you believe it offends God? Do you reject the teachings of the Church that state you should believe so? Gotta run. We’re going to 11:00 mass at Our Lady of the Sacred Heart.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/5 "2003-03-16T16:22:40Z")
dino, thanks. And Bob Cos, wow, that’s a little confusing, but no, I don’t see any evil effect resulting from missing mass. ---
**Author:** ![dino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e95f7d/32.png) [@dino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dino)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/6 "2003-03-16T20:32:35Z")
**bob cos** , i agree with \*\* joel \*\* that i dont see any evil effect from missing a mass that i dont feel anything for, and am basically a passive entity - in that kind of situation it doesent matter if you are there or not. i dont feel it offends God either - if God feels offended by anything, I feel God would be much more offended by the way in which the sacredness of mass is badly portrayed than by the way someone would consciously not attend because they felt nothing by going anyway… I also think the church has to play its part in her own teachings about going to mass. Yes, I would love to go to an uplifting joyous ceremony with my friends, family and community each week - might even go twice a week;) , but dont think i MUST go to something that i feel nothing for because i’m supposed to go - there is enough hipocracy in the world already.:mad: Also, I was just speaking on a down to earth level, as that is where i believe most people act in the end. You can study theology and all the books you want and see what you are supposed to do, but what you feel you should do in the end is a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/7 "2003-03-16T21:03:15Z")
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: > [@](#): > > Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath > > 2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ: > > Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death. > > 2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship “as a sign of his universal beneficence to all.” Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people. > > The Sunday Eucharist > > 2177 The Sunday celebration of the Lord’s Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church’s life. “Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church.” > > “Also to be observed are the day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension of Christ, the feast of the Body and Blood of Christi, the feast of Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, the feast of Saint Joseph, the feast of the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul, and the feast of All Saints.” > > 2178 This practice of the Christian assembly dates from the beginnings of the apostolic age. The Letter to the Hebrews reminds the faithful “not to neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some, but to encourage one another.” > > Tradition preserves the memory of an ever-timely exhortation: Come to Church early, approach the Lord, and confess your sins, repent in prayer. . . . Be present at the sacred and divine liturgy, conclude its prayer and do not leave before the dismissal. . . . We have often said: “This day is given to you for prayer and rest. This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it.” > 2179 “A parish is a definite community of the Christian faithful established on a stable basis within a particular church; the pastoral care of the parish is entrusted to a pastor as its own shepherd under the authority of the diocesan bishop.” It is the place where all the faithful can be gathered together for the Sunday celebration of the Eucharist. The parish initiates the Christian people into the ordinary expression of the liturgical life: it gathers them together in this celebration; it teaches Christ’s saving doctrine; it practices the charity of the Lord in good works and brotherly love: > > You cannot pray at home as at church, where there is a great multitude, where exclamations are cried out to God as from one great heart, and where there is something more: the union of minds, the accord of souls, the bond of charity, the prayers of the priests. > > The Sunday obligation > > 2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: “On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass.” “The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.” > > 2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin. > > 2182 Participation in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. The faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God’s holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. > > 2183 “If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the Liturgy of the Word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families.” So, let me answer your questions out of order: 2) The above passage speaks for itself: yes, it’s still a mortal sin. 1. How bad a Catholic are you? It’s nobody’s place to look within the heart of another person and make a judgment as to the state of their soul. If you genuinely believe that there’s no harm in missing Mass, then it’s hard to blame you for not going. (I.e., why in the heck would I yell at an athiest for not going to Mass? There’s a foundational element missing here.) On the other hand, no one should ever presume that anyone’s soul–including one’s own–is picture perfect either. You might feel OK–that you’re a good guy, that your pangs are psychiatric “Catholic guilt”–but that’s a dangerous road to take, because it’s easy to want to justify one’s own wrongdoing. So, my suggestion: talk to a Priest about it. I’m loathe to say “shop around” for a Priest, because in this day and age, you might be tempted to look for someone who will tell you what you want to hear. I’d say, stop over at your church when confessions are held and talk to the first one available. Describe what you’re feeling, what you’ve done, and what you haven’t. I will clarify a few things about the Mass: Catholics understand it on many levels: it’s like a giant family gathering; it’s a figurative **and** literal re-creation of the Last Supper; it’s the interjection of heaven onto earth and a preview of what comes at the end of time. Masses are, in fact, held every day, although obviously, people can only attend these when convenient, and there’s no obligation unless it’s a Holy Day. The once-a-week requirement stems from our human need to consistently reinvigorate ourselves with God’s grace and presence–to do otherwise would be like saying one can go indefinitely without water. Or, more appropriately, it might be like a wife telling her husband that she needs to see him “whenever she feels like it.” You wouldn’t expect the marriage to last too long with that attitude. It’s human to miss mass, and it’s human for your thoughts to wander. (As a Catholic, I won’t say it’s excusable–absent some emergency, such as driving someone to the hospital–but I can say that I understand where you’re coming from.) I would, however, ask you if you know what you’re missing on Sunday. You might further investigate what the Mass is truly supposed to be–which might be hard to appreciate if the homily is boring, the singing is bad, or there’s a cute girl in front of you. If that’s the case, you might look for another parish that’s more suited to you–or you might get involved by either volunteering at the church, or at least further studying what you’re supposed to experience. If Mass IS a literal preview of heaven, after all, then skipping it on Sunday might signal to God that you want to skip it altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/8 "2003-03-16T21:22:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dino \* > \*\ ***bob cos** , i agree with \*\* joel \*\* that i dont see any evil effect from missing a mass that i dont feel anything for, and am basically a passive entity - in that kind of situation it doesent matter if you are there or not. \*\* Then perhaps you’re not a practicing Catholic? Not trying to be glib, but the Church teaches that missing mass is offensive to God. That, by itself, is a sinful act. Feel free to disregard this teaching, but it’s pretty fundamental to the Catholic faith. Re: my earlier post, if you truly see nothing evil resulting from this omission, you are probably not committing a mortal sin. But, in your confusion, you’re probably not a Catholic anymore either. Don’t worry. You can always come back.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/9 "2003-03-16T21:42:55Z")
ResIpsaLoquitor I went to Mass today. It went like this: First I was paying attention to what was being said. Then I thought about some episodes of Will and Grace for a while. Then I thought about getting home to work on a computer program I’m making. As for going to another church, pretty much all Catholic churches are the same. I use to go to one, where the music played was very upbeat, and I enjoyed that, but that’s a 30 minute or over drive, too much gas to waste for good music. But besides churches being the same, most of the problem probably lies in my attitude, and in this instance, it’s something that seems nearly impossible to change (trust me, I’ve really, really tried.) I’ll finish by saying, that Jesus made the point, that it’s not really the actions that God’s concerned about, the thought behind them. Just as killing is bad, so is hating your neighbor for no good reason. Adultery is bad, but so is lusting after somebody who’s married. The summon this morning was about how you can go through all the motions of being a Christian, but if your heart isn’t in it, it doesn’t mean anything. Logically, this applies to going to church as well. If you go, only because you’re told that you could go to hell if you don’t, you’re just going through empty motions. And to God, it’s probably just the same as if you stayed home. Showing up to Mass with the attitude that you hope it ends soon, is probably very insulting to God. And I find it ridiculous to say that if you skip mass, God will think that you won’t want to go to heaven. God **knows** that I don’t want to go to hell. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/10 "2003-03-16T21:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bob Cos \* > \*\*…the Church teaches that missing mass is offensive to God. That, by itself, is a sinful act. > > Feel free to disregard this teaching, but it’s pretty fundamental to the Catholic faith. Re: my earlier post, if you truly see nothing evil resulting from this omission, you are probably not committing a mortal sin. But, in your confusion, you’re probably not a Catholic anymore either. > > Don’t worry. You can always come back.😉 \*\* Missing Mass is offensive to God. So going with your heart not in it isn’t. OK, guess that answers my question. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/11 "2003-03-16T22:05:18Z")
> [@](#): > > And I find it ridiculous to say that if you skip mass, God will think that you won’t want to go to heaven. God knows that I don’t want to go to hell. Seriously–this translates as “I don’t want to go to hell, but I also want the freedom to disobey God.” You can argue that skipping mass **isn’t** a sin–but that’s circumventing the original issue. ---
**Author:** ![AvidReader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@AvidReader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AvidReader)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/12 "2003-03-16T22:26:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > \*\*, but am I to really believe that after death, I’ll hear him say “I don’t know if I should let you up here, after all, you did miss some Sunday Masses.”? > So, I guess this is two questions. > > 1. How bad of a Catholic am I for not wanting to go to mass, and when I’m there, being bored. > 2. Is missing Sunday mass still considered a mortal sin? \*\* Those two are bad…_real_ bad. However, you still might squeak through the Pearly Gates, **if** , you did not, also eat \*\* meat\*\* last Friday!!! ---
**Author:** ![AvidReader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@AvidReader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AvidReader)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/13 "2003-03-16T22:57:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bob Cos \* > \*\*The Catholic Church [teaches](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm#III) with regard to mortal sin the following: > > ``` > That the act of the sinner may be imputed to him it is not necessary that the object which terminates and specifies his act should be directly willed as an ends or means. It suffices that it be willed indirectly or in its cause, i.e. if the sinner foresees, at least confusedly, that it will follow from the act which he freely performs or from his omission of an act. When the cause produces a twofold effect, one of which is directly willed, the other indirectly, the effect which follows indirectly is morally imputable to the sinner when these three conditions are verified: > > ``` > > first, the sinner must foresee at least confusedly the evil effects which follow on the cause he places; > > second, he must be able to refrain from placing the cause; > > third, he must be under the obligation of preventing the evil effect. > > \*\* \*\* Huh?\*\* ---
**Author:** ![dino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e95f7d/32.png) [@dino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dino)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/14 "2003-03-16T23:23:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor \* > **From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:** > > The Sunday obligation > > 2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: \*\* “On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass.” \*\* “The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.” > > 2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason \*\* the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist \*\*on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin. > > 2182\*\* Participation \*\*in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. The faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God’s holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. > > 2183 “If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause \*\*participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, \*\*it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the Liturgy of the Word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families.” I am merely trying to point out that attendence at mass essentially about participation - just showing up isnt enough. Participation, IMHO, means being fully active and consciously involved. If I am thinking about television programmes or the cute girl in front of me, I dont think I am participating. If one is not doing this (participating) are they commiting a mortal sin too? Would this mean there are an awful lot of people who do sit in church pews with ‘mortalers’, and does that mean theres going to be a lot of people in hell… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bob Cos \* > > Don’t worry. You can always come back. Don’t worry. I never left. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gaijin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/838e76/32.png) [@Gaijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaijin)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/15 "2003-03-16T23:55:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > \*\*… most of the problem probably lies in my attitude, and in this instance, it’s something that seems nearly impossible to change (trust me, I’ve really, really tried.) > \*\* Then try harder. The problem, as you’ve stated, is that you’re going to mass but your heart isn’t in it. You feel that this is just as bad as not going at all. If you’re going to mass, but you’re _not trying to get your heart into it_, then I might say you have a point. But if you are trying to get your heart into it, then I’d say you’re good to go. Increase your awareness. You’re sitting there, thinking about Will & Grace. Once you realize, “Wait a minute, I’m at mass, I shouldn’t be thinking about Will & Grace,” stop thinking about Will & Grace and focus on the miracle that is about to occur before you. You’re sitting there, thinking about the cute girl in front of you. Once you realize, “Wait a minute, I’m at mass, I shouldn’t be thinking about some cute girl,” stop thinking about the cute girl and focus on the recreation of the incredible sacrifice that was made for you. It’s easy to get bored. It’s easy for your mind to wander. It’s easy to convince yourself that Jesus made the point, and then to think that you don’t really need to go to mass. But when you are reminded that this man-God took upon Himself the entirety of sin, the whole breadth of human suffering, both caused and endured, because he wanted to give us redemption, it seems so selfish, so human to avoid His worship. I re-iterate: Try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/16 "2003-03-17T00:08:34Z")
Yeah, I guess in the eyes of Catholisism that’s the only option I have. Force myself to enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/17 "2003-03-17T02:30:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Logical Phallacy \* > \*\*Alternate solutions to your moral dilema: > > Look for a different church/community that resonates with you more closely. > > Look for a different god that resonates with you more closely. > > Look for a different lie to tell yourself. \*\* **Logical Phallacy** , I agree with your suggestions #1 and 2. But am curious about your third suggestion. Could you elaborate a bit on it? -LA ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/18 "2003-03-17T05:40:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, I guess in the eyes of Catholisism that’s the only option I have. Force myself to enjoy it. Well, that’s not quite the road to take. A marriage where one spouse simply shows up and does his job isn’t much of a marriage, because as you’ve pointed out, his heart isn’t in it. You can’t “force” someone to enjoy something. Love can’t be faked, and God can’t be fooled. However–for lack of a better description, you **do** get points for effort. You’ve realized that there’s something wrong with being inattentive in Mass–at the least, it’s a form of dishonesty, and that’s certainly something we can agree is wrong. Your inattentiveness might stem from a boring church, and that’s something you can’t fix, but you **do** need to worry about what’s being done at your end. Again: **learn** about your Catholic traditions so you can understand what you’re doing without faking it. I’ll recommend _Living the Liturgy_ by Marilyn Gustin as a start. (I have no idea if it’s still in print. You can always ask around for books on the meaning of the Mass, or try joining a young adult group at your church and asking around.) Your sarcasm is correct–you can’t force yourself to enjoy something. However, realizing that something is wrong here, you owe it to yourself, the community, and God to figure out what that is. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/19 "2003-03-17T06:36:16Z")
Well thank you, and I think that there’s been said all that there is to say, so this will end this thread. Thanks again everybody for your input. ---
**Author:** ![Bean\_Counter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@Bean\_Counter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bean_Counter)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741/20 "2003-03-17T21:08:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > **But besides churches being the same, most of the problem probably lies in my attitude, and in this instance, it’s something that seems nearly impossible to change (trust me, I’ve really, really tried.)** If you are having trouble “keeping your head in the game” just sitting there, might I suggest taking a more active part in the Eucharist Celebration? Ever thought of becoming an usher, Eucharistic Minister, Reader or joining the choir? Maybe taking a different role in the celebration of the Mass could stimulate the effect you are looking for? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-my-fellow-catholics/161741.md?page=2)