# Question for Pro-life Supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959 "2010-09-07T19:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/41 "2010-09-09T17:06:29Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Guess again. I never wanted children and have never been pregnant. But I do not like the idea of anyone using a woman’s body without her permission, and I absolutely despise the terroristic tactics of the anti-abortion group. If you don’t think something that is legal should be legal, work at chaging the law (and good luck with that). But don’t harrass and kill people who are obeying the law. > > The fact that the whole “abortion causes breast cancer” is constantly being used by the anti-abortion groups, yet this has never been proven in an unbiased study, ias despicable. If you also had no one very close to you that you encouraged to have or not to have an abortion then my ‘more then WAG’ was wrong. But the things you brought here up in your reply seem to indicate issues that started very early in your life (possibly in infancy). It is not your ideals so much but the tone of them, which has always seemed very angry and bitter, that to me points to a past hurt. I personally don’t like terrorist tactics by any group, I look for the path of Love and unity in any debate. In political issues it often is set up with anger and division on both sides, and there is no side to stand on. I don’t know if abortion causes breast cancer or not, but believe if enough people believe it does that very well could happen (mind over matter), we often get what we ask for. It would be a shame if that became or has become true. It is a wish to impose a further penalty on someone who has already sacrificed her very own child. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/42 "2010-09-09T17:12:36Z")
**Annie** , I take it you’re not familiar with **Kanicbird** ’s um, “views” on this subject. You might want to do a search. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/43 "2010-09-09T17:14:26Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Every time I see the anti-abortion people picketting the local Planned Parenthood, my opinion of them gets lower. Let’s face facts: They have committed more illegal and vioolent acts than the pro-choice group. Near where I life there is a planned parenthood and across the street there is a 'life something or other" christian organization that often pickets the planned parenthood. I really have disliked both places. Recently a place, quite, understated opened up next door to the planned parenthood called “Alight - abortion alternatives”. From what I understand of them, they try to connect parent and child, start the loving relationship, and have offered free ultrasounds as part of this. Admittedly I know very little of them, but just have a great feeling about that place, and though very small and set back, does seem to radiate out with the light of love. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/44 "2010-09-09T17:15:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Annie** , I take it you’re not familiar with **Kanicbird** ’s um, “views” on this subject. You might want to do a search. Annie and I go way back 😃 And my views have changed a lot over pasts years. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/45 "2010-09-09T18:09:01Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > > [@kanicbird](#): > > > > Your posts on this subject over the years is cite enough, what i believe is the revealed truth causes a immediate denial reaction from you, a defense mechanism to prevent some pain of your heart. I’d more the WAG that you have a personal issue with abortion, and you need this level of denial to get on with life. Beyond denial is healing, but it involves pain, but going through that pain leads to healing and a much better and happier life. > > Guess again. I never wanted children and have never been pregnant. But I do not like the idea of anyone using a woman’s body without her permission, and I absolutely despise the terroristic tactics of the anti-abortion group. If you don’t think something that is legal should be legal, work at chaging the law (and good luck with that). But don’t harrass and kill people who are obeying the law. > > The fact that the whole “abortion causes breast cancer” is constantly being used by the anti-abortion groups, yet this has never been proven in an unbiased study, ias despicable. You fancy yourself an environmentalist, from your posts. You presumably would cry foul if one were to associate all environmentalists with the tactics of Earth First, right? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/46 "2010-09-10T13:42:21Z")
No, but from what I see the anti-abortion people are the most militant, having the strongest attitude that everyone in the entire universe should agree with them. They see the issue entirely in terms of black-and-white. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/47 "2010-09-10T14:07:31Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > No, but from what I see the anti-abortion people are the most militant, having the strongest attitude that everyone in the entire universe should agree with them. They see the issue entirely in terms of black-and-white. “From what you can see.” Gotcha. > [@](#): > > The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion … draws all things else to support and agree with it. And though there be a greater number and weight of instances to be found on the other side, yet these it either neglects or despises, or else by some distinction sets aside or rejects. Francis Bacon. You have seen several examples just in this thread of rather non-militant pro-lifers, of which I am a reasonably good example. Yet you seem to think that we are unrepresentative and view the more strident pro-lifers as the archetype. Like I said, if someone were to paint environmentalists as radical criminals just because of the behavior of Earth First, you wouldn’t regard that as particularly fair. So you shouldn’t be surprised if I criticize essentially identical behavior committed by you. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/48 "2010-09-10T14:28:44Z")
How many radical environmentists have killed people who were obeying the law? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/49 "2010-09-10T15:32:17Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > How many radical environmentists have killed people who were obeying the law? Several. See MOVE and the Unabomber. ---
**Author:** ![pyromyte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@pyromyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pyromyte)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/50 "2010-09-10T16:36:19Z")
1. Not all pro-lifers (or environmentalists) are militants. 2. The militant tactics of some pro-lifers (or environmentalists) does not itself nullify their position on abortion (or the environment). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/51 "2010-09-10T16:57:05Z")
Agree totally. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/52 "2010-09-10T19:30:35Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > How many radical environmentists have killed people who were obeying the law? Did you miss the story about the guy holding people hostage at the discovery channel? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/53 "2010-09-10T20:35:39Z")
> [@pyromyte](#): > > 1. Not all pro-lifers (or environmentalists) are militants. > > 2. The militant tactics of some pro-lifers (or environmentalists) does not itself nullify their position on abortion (or the environment). This Personally, when looking at the issue I’ve always been bothered that 9 people ruled on something that is beyond their sphere of power. They were tasked with deciding the rights of women (regarding their bodies). By extension of that case they elected themselves the arbiters of life itself. 7 of those 9 people decided the fate of developing humans. While I appreciate the thought process put into it, and I agree with at least the mindset behind the decision, I don’t see how it was theirs to make. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/54 "2010-09-10T20:36:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > > > How many radical environmentists have killed people who were obeying the law? > > Did you miss the story about the guy holding people hostage at the discovery channel? How many people did he kill? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/55 "2010-09-10T21:02:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Personally, when looking at the issue I’ve always been bothered that 9 people ruled on something that is beyond their sphere of power. They were tasked with deciding the rights of women (regarding their bodies). By extension of that case they elected themselves the arbiters of life itself. 7 of those 9 people decided the fate of developing humans. > > While I appreciate the thought process put into it, and I agree with at least the mindset behind the decision, I don’t see how it was theirs to make. Other people were making similar decisions for women. Even now we have pharmacists making the decision that they won’t provide women with medicine that the women’s doctors have decided is good for them. ---
**Author:** ![pyromyte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@pyromyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pyromyte)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/56 "2010-09-10T21:28:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@pyromyte](#): > > > > 1. Not all pro-lifers (or environmentalists) are militants. > > > > 2. The militant tactics of some pro-lifers (or environmentalists) does not itself nullify their position on abortion (or the environment). > > This > > Personally, when looking at the issue I’ve always been bothered that 9 people ruled on something that is beyond their sphere of power. They were tasked with deciding the rights of women (regarding their bodies). By extension of that case they elected themselves the arbiters of life itself. 7 of those 9 people decided the fate of developing humans. > > While I appreciate the thought process put into it, and I agree with at least the mindset behind the decision, I don’t see how it was theirs to make. 😕 Did you mean to quote my points? I’m just trying to say that the existence of violent, pro-life, activist hypocrites is not in dispute; however, their existence is irrelevant to whether abortion is moral, or why pro-lifers think the way they do. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/57 "2010-09-11T13:21:15Z")
> [@pyromyte](#): > > 1. Not all pro-lifers (or environmentalists) are militants. > > 2. The militant tactics of some pro-lifers (or environmentalists) does not itself nullify their position on abortion (or the environment). Comparing anti-abortion people to the environmentalists is hardly equal. Environmentalism affects everyone on some level. Abortion should be a private matter. There is a big difference between a company polluting the earth and a woman yerminating a pregnancy. Anti-abortion groups are more on the level of PETA–We think animals (fetusus) should have rights that supersede other peoples, no matter what the law says, and some of us are willing to go to nauseating levels to do it. The protestors were today, across from the ceemony honoring 9/11 victims. My opinion of them just sunk a little lower, something I did not feel was possible. ---
**Author:** ![lisalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/0ea827/32.png) [@lisalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisalan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/58 "2010-09-11T18:19:07Z")
[quote=“Hold\_Fast, post:1, topic:552959”] First off, don’t think I’m trying to attack you or anything, but am just bringing a question to the table. And Pro-Choice’ers, not to discriminate, but I’d just like to ask you to hold off posting in massive amounts for now, to avoid clutter. To answer my question, first you need to have to agree with the coming statement, which is: Abortion is ultimately wrong due to the fact that a fetus, regardless if its a living human or not, is being robbed of its ultimate end, which is becoming a human, by its being aborted and therefore is in-directly being killed. \*\*So the question essentially is that, if you agree with this, then would you think of birth control as wrong, because a condom or the pill is also inadvertantly not letting cells become a human?[/\*\*QUOTE] Not the same thing at all. You are preventing something before it even happens so there is no life there if the sperm cannot reach the egg. Abortion is the desturction of the fetus that has already formed. If you are not using a condom that time there is no guarantee that conception would occur from that particular act of intercourse. Any type of birth control that acts as an abortive is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/59 "2010-09-11T18:27:00Z")
I think late term abortions are wrong, but I have no problem with embyonic stem cell research or “morning after” pills. I think abortion after the 1st trimester is a bad idea. I do not in any way think a blob of cells is a “human” and if we can use these stem cells to help save the lives of actual viable. living outside the womb people, we have an obligation to do so. Besides, many of these embryoes are going to be destroyed anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959/60 "2010-09-13T17:57:56Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Comparing anti-abortion people to the environmentalists is hardly equal. Environmentalism affects everyone on some level. Abortion should be a private matter. There is a big difference between a company polluting the earth and a woman yerminating a pregnancy. I wasn’t comparing movements at all - I was illustrating that you treat militants differently when they act in support of a cause you believe in. You take pains to distance yourself from them and assert that those people don’t speak for your movement. Fair enough - most of us do so. Yet confronted with militants for a cause you oppose, you make them the face of that movement in your mind and in your posts. It is rather blatant, extremely transparent, and if it were done against one of your preferred causes you would be the first screaming foul. That was the point of my posts - and I see you have done all you can to miss it. Nice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-pro-life-supporters/552959.md?page=2)