# question for the athiests **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483 "2005-01-19T02:41:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tlk1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tlk1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tlk1)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/1 "2005-01-19T02:41:35Z")
Questions for the athiests - 1. What drives your morals - other than the deterent of having to spend part of your time alive in jail? What prevents you from doing whatever it takes to get what you want when you want it other than the long arm of the law? Does right or wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? 2. What makes your life truly meaningful? Career, money, romance or what? Where do you derive your self worth? 3. What is the meaning of your existence? Does your life - or anyones - really matter on this rock? TLK1 ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/2 "2005-01-19T02:44:51Z")
> [@tlk1](#): > > Questions for the athiests - > > 1. What drives your morals - other than the deterent of having to spend part of your time alive in jail? What prevents you from doing whatever it takes to get what you want when you want it other than the long arm of the law? Does right or wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? What makes Christians act morally, besides the fear of God sending them to hell? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/3 "2005-01-19T02:50:08Z")
> [@tlk1](#): > > 1. What drives your morals - other than the deterent of having to spend part of your time alive in jail? What prevents you from doing whatever it takes to get what you want when you want it other than the long arm of the law? What prevents you from doing it? Do people rely have to rely on religion or fear or punishment that heavily? Somebody isn’t being given much credit, but I’m not sure who it is. I try to treat people as well as I can because I’d like them to do the same, I think that’s the long and the short of it. > [@](#): > > Does right or wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? What’s the grand scheme of things? > [@](#): > > 1. What makes your life truly meaningful? Career, money, romance or what? Where do you derive your self worth? The two things aren’t related and I’ll answer the ‘meaningful’ thing below. Self-worth? It comes from the things I do, and from just liking myself I suppose. These are very pop-psychology types of questions and I don’t actually spend time thinking about them. > [@](#): > > 1. What is the meaning of your existence? Does your life - or anyones - really matter on this rock? Does it matter? Sure it does, to me. To get to the first question, I’d say this: what is the meaning of a chair? Life is a thing. It doesn’t have an objective meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/4 "2005-01-19T02:50:40Z")
To take the burden of doing so off my atheist brothers and sisters here: Man, that OP was **sooooo** full of Christian love! :dubious: That said, it might be interesting to ignore the inflammatoriness of the phrasing of the OP questions, and discuss what the foundations of morality in a non-theistic system are. I’d be really interested in understanding more about how you all see your motivations as deriving from, if you don’t mind answering. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/5 "2005-01-19T02:53:25Z")
> [@tlk1](#): > > 1. What drives your morals - other than the deterent of having to spend part of your time alive in jail? What prevents you from doing whatever it takes to get what you want when you want it other than the long arm of the law? Does right or wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? I get my morality from empathy with other people. See, just because I don’t believe in God doesn’t make me a sociopath. Indeed, it makes me far less of a sociopath than a person whose only reason for not killing me is fear of going to hell, or a desire for personal reward. And yes, right and wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things. It makes life better for everyone. > [@](#): > > 1. What makes your life truly meaningful? Career, money, romance or what? Where do you derive your self worth? Where do I derive my self-worth? From my own personal happiness. > [@](#): > > 1. What is the meaning of your existence? Does your life - or anyones - really matter on this rock? In the grand scheme of things? Not really. But it matters to me and those close to me, and that’s enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![OliverTwistofLime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b487fb/32.png) [@OliverTwistofLime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverTwistofLime)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/6 "2005-01-19T02:54:57Z")
With obvious exceptions, the Golden Rule works very nicely…In addition to that my atheistic parents instilled morality into me. There is so much here on earth that is beautiful to enjoy. While I spend a short time here, I like to take in all its beauty. God is a term that must be defined before discussions like this. I do not give any super power additional powers as love, caring, fairness and the like. This is where I base my atheistic feelings. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/7 "2005-01-19T03:05:20Z")
> [@tlk1](#): > > Questions for the athiests - > > 1. What drives your morals - other than the deterent of having to spend part of your time alive in jail? What prevents you from doing whatever it takes to get what you want when you want it other than the long arm of the law? Does right or wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? > > 2. What makes your life truly meaningful? Career, money, romance or what? Where do you derive your self worth? > > 3. What is the meaning of your existence? Does your life - or anyones - really matter on this rock? > TLK1 As for morals, I don’t need god for that. Besides, why would I assume that the gods would demand moral behavior? Lots of wars have been fought in the name of gods. As for the meaning of my existence, I derive that based on my own sense of ethics. If their is a god, how can I know how this god wants me to behave? What if Satan is god? ---
**Author:** ![tlk1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tlk1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tlk1)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/8 "2005-01-19T03:05:54Z")
PolyCarp, thanks for the “clarification” for all. Although the OP was meant to be read as neutrally as it could be asked. The topic is a landmine unto itself. Seriously, a question surrounds this observation (and vice-versa): people have a tendency within religious circles (none specifically) to act as they do out of fear or desire - fear of punishment or desire to please or be like that which they worship (or the idea they worship). To be able to live without those motivations makes me wonder: is there a fairly common motivation that is shared by those “outside” of the religious realms? Freud I am not… ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/9 "2005-01-19T03:09:43Z")
> [@tlk1](#): > > Questions for the athiests - > > 1. What drives your morals - other than the deterent of having to spend part of your time alive in jail? What prevents you from doing whatever it takes to get what you want when you want it other than the long arm of the law? Does right or wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? I derive my morals from my parents and life experience, like everyone else. I feel empathy towards my fellow man and treat them as I would want to be treated. I don’t like it when people act like a jerk towards me, rob my house, etc. so I follow suit. I also recognize that for society to function we need certain rules or things start to fall apart. I guess you would consider this the threat of jailtime. As for the last part, I never understood the “does it matter” phrase. Even from a reglious perspective, would it matter if an asteroid hit the earth and we all died? Everyone would go to either heaven or hell (or whatever you believe), right? So I turn your question to you: “would it matter?” To me it’s a meaningless phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/10 "2005-01-19T03:10:30Z")
Well, you know, with the obvious exception in the answer to #1, and the fact that (re #3) I consider the world as a whole to be more teleological, the answers **Neurotik** gave would nearly perfectly apply for me as well. And we’re on opposite sides of the religion fence, by all standard definitions. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/11 "2005-01-19T03:19:46Z")
My thoughts on this: “1. What drives your morals - other than the deterent of having to spend part of your time alive in jail? What prevents you from doing whatever it takes to get what you want when you want it other than the long arm of the law? Does right or wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things?” Yes, right and wrong matter. Morals, at least mine, are a function of two things, reality and self worth. While lying, stealing, and cheating might get you what you want in the short term, in the long run it is going to bite you in the ass. In reality lying, cheating and stealing generally don’t work very well. Then there is the self worth issue. If I lie, cheat or steal I feel like a jerk. I don’t like that feeling so I don’t do it. “2. What makes your life truly meaningful? Career, money, romance or what? Where do you derive your self worth?” The same things as everyone else (probably): Family, friends and work. My self worth is a function of how I do things. “3. What is the meaning of your existence? Does your life - or anyones - really matter on this rock?” The meaning of my existence is what I do with my life. As Neurotik said, my life doesn’t matter in the big scheme of things but my life, and those of my friends and family, matter very much to me. Slee ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/12 "2005-01-19T03:23:20Z")
> [@tlk1](#): > > Questions for the athiests - > > 1. What drives your morals - other than the deterent of having to spend part of your time alive in jail? What prevents you from doing whatever it takes to get what you want when you want it other than the long arm of the law? Does right or wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? Well, AFAICT there is no “grand scheme of things,” so I don’t concern myself with that. We get one life, so it behooves me to be as kind and as moral as i can because the finality of death makes life all the more precious. If this is the only go-round we get, then love and compassion become all the more important to give and receive. > [@](#): > > 1. What makes your life truly meaningful? Career, money, romance or what? Where do you derive your self worth? From being with people I love and who love me. > [@](#): > > 1. What is the meaning of your existence? Does your life - or anyones - really matter on this rock? Life matters because it is infinitely precious. So far, our planet seems to be the only abode of life in the entire universe, so taking care of each other is vital. We are a gentle “Yes” in the blackness of infinite night. Have you ever seen **Blade Runner**? It’s a movie in which several androids, having been given only a 4-year lifespan, return to Earth to find out if their lives can be extended. Their attempts fail, and the last android, played by Rutger Hauer, saves the life of Deckard, the human detective sent to kill him. The detective, played by Harrison Ford, asks why the android saved him: > [@](#): > > **Batty:** I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. > > Deckard: [voice-over] I don’t know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life, anybody’s life, my life. All he’d wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die. That’s what life is all about, Charlie Brown. TLK1 [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![tlk1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tlk1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tlk1)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/13 "2005-01-19T03:27:10Z")
[QUOTE=mstay] As for the last part, I never understood the “does it matter” phrase. Even from a reglious perspective, would it matter if an asteroid hit the earth and we all died? Everyone would go to either heaven or hell (or whatever you believe), right? So I turn your question to you: “would it matter?” QUOTE] Personally, I tend to think of it in these terms: if there is no God, then no, it does not matter - at all. If evolution is correct, then we were a random configuration that was hit by another random configuration set in mortion and doing its thing in the universe. It matters to me as conciousness, but all of our collective concsousnesses cannot change the fact that a large rock is being rammed up our posterior, so it does not matter in the grand scheme of things -what is, is. However, if there is a God and we are obliterated by the asteroid, then I have to conclude that God either willed it or allowed it - either of which are almost the same in some ways. What the Godly motivations were really cannot be known - almost like the tsunami. AND, if there is a God created us and allowed this asteroid to happen and He is omnipotent- whether or not it matters is up to Him. But rest assured, it WOULD matter to me… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/14 "2005-01-19T03:31:16Z")
> [@mstay](#): > > Personally, I tend to think of it in these terms: if there is no God, then no, it does not matter - at all. If evolution is correct, then we were a random configuration that was hit by another random configuration set in mortion and doing its thing in the universe. That the frequency of alleles shift in popualtions has no bearing on the God question. Science deals only with process, not meaning. It is not impossible for God to have created the human race through natural selection. And evolution is not random. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/15 "2005-01-19T03:36:53Z")
Be careful with your quotes, **gobear**. That was **tlk1** ’s post, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/16 "2005-01-19T03:38:13Z")
> [@mstay](#): > > Be careful with your quotes, **gobear**. That was **tlk1** ’s post, not mine. Oops, my apologies for the misattribution. ---
**Author:** ![tlk1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tlk1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tlk1)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/17 "2005-01-19T03:49:02Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > That the frequency of alleles shift in popualtions has no bearing on the God question. Science deals only with process, not meaning. It is not impossible for God to have created the human race through natural selection. And evolution is not random. You are correct; the theory should have been the big bang, not evolution. Big bang + an amino acid soup & a lightning strike. Insert your favorite correct theory here; the intent was to describe a creation/modification situation without God (a God-vacuum, as it were). ---
**Author:** ![Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji_Kitakyusho)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/18 "2005-01-19T03:51:20Z")
> [@tlk1](#): > > 1. What drives your morals - other than the deterent of having to spend part of your time alive in jail? What prevents you from doing whatever it takes to get what you want when you want it other than the long arm of the law? Does right or wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? Objective versus authoritarian ethics. What prevents me from killing someone, other than the fear of punishment? Simply that this is not a societally sustainable behaviour. Laws exist for a reason - society’s attempt to control behaviour in a manner which benefits society. If everyone ran around killing each other, we couldn’t very well sustain an effective lifestyle. “Do unto others…” is not necessarily dogma, it is also good advice from a logical standpoint. The same can be said for lying, cheating, fraud or any other unethical behaviour you would care to name. Consequently, what are widely considered to be unethical behaviours also tend to be criminal offences. > [@](#): > > 1. What makes your life truly meaningful? Career, money, romance or what? Where do you derive your self worth? I’m not entirely sure how to answer this without clarification of “meaningful” I don’t think that my life, in context as being one of approximately six billion on this planet, will have any significant consequences, unless I discover a cure for cancer or something in my remaining years of life. Either way, I’m not losing sleep over it. I’m here for eighty years or so, so I plan to enjoy that time while I have it. As for self-worth, I derive this from my, um, self. I take pride in the things I do well, and in being an ethical person. If I didn’t answer your question then I need clarification as to what, exactly, you are getting at. > [@](#): > > 1. What is the meaning of your existence? Does your life - or anyones - really matter on this rock? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/19 "2005-01-19T03:53:23Z")
> [@tlk1](#): > > 1. What drives your morals - other than the deterent of having to spend part of your time alive in jail? What prevents you from doing whatever it takes to get what you want when you want it other than the long arm of the law? Does right or wrong REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things? Empathy and altruism, I guess. I figure since every healthy person has these qualities to a greater or lesser degree, it’s an adaptive trait. Other animals also display behaviors that could be described as altruism, so the idea that the potential for expressing these moral qualities is, to some degree, inate, doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch. It’s just a hypothesis. In reality, I don’t really know for sure what exactly “drives” me to be the way I am. > [@tlk1](#): > > 1. What makes your life truly meaningful? Career, money, romance or what? Where do you derive your self worth? I’m not sure my life is “meaningful” in any grand sense. I am able to feel happy and sad, to be in love, to feel excited by a discovery, etc; so I guess I’m motivated by the simple desire to be as happy as I can, ethically, and avoid being unnecessarily unhappy. If I do something other people admire, I feel a sense of prestige, but I’m cautious about leaning on the approval of others too much, lest my failures make me feel I’m worthless in turn. > [@tlk1](#): > > 1. What is the meaning of your existence? Does your life - or anyones - really matter on this rock? Again, as to some great meaing to my existence, I really have no idea. I think life “matters”, in that it’s quite possible being alive is all there is to experience. If that’s the case, it would be terribly wrong of me to take someone else’s life away from them (without some extremely compelling reason, anyway). It could very well be that the desire for self-preservation, which I share with virtually all other creatures, is nothing more than a hard-wired survival mechanism, difficult to override, but with no great cosmic purpose to it. Maybe emotions are just another manifestation or artifact of these drives for survival and procreation. I really don’t “know”, in that there’s an explanation behind it all that has my 100% confidence. But to the extent that I am motivated to be happy, to be healthy, to love and be loved, I think everyone else must potentially feel the same way, and that’s reason enough to respect them, and treat them like they “matter”, even if they don’t, in the sense you’re referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483/20 "2005-01-19T03:54:58Z")
> [@tlk1](#): > > Personally, I tend to think of it in these terms: if there is no God, then no, it does not matter - at all. If evolution is correct, then we were a random configuration that was hit by another random configuration set in mortion and doing its thing in the universe. Even with the terms corrected, this doesn’t make sense. Does a work of art have to be made by somebody else to be good? Why does life need to have a meaning or purpose grafted from without to be worth it? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-the-athiests/285483.md?page=2)