# Question for women: Which noun do you prefer to be designated by? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103 "2012-09-28T04:00:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/21 "2012-09-30T18:58:57Z")
“Woman”. That is how I prefer to be referred to as, of course, not how I would want to be addressed. In theory, I would not mind comments on those of my gender as a whole using the term “females”, but most such comments are pretty annoying (as are those about males), so that is immaterial. ---
**Author:** ![zhoen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c4cdca/32.png) [@zhoen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zhoen)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/22 "2012-09-30T23:58:25Z")
> [@sandra\_nz](#): > > Woman would be my preference. Although I’m quite happy to be included in a group of ‘guys’, which I don’t see as being gender-specific when applied to groups of people. This. Really, it isn’t often that necessary to indicate gender, unless you are describing me to be found in a public place. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/23 "2012-10-01T01:41:45Z")
I’m yet another “woman”, although if someone feels that “lady” is more respectful, I don’t take offense. I’ve known far too many men who refer to women as “females”, and they used it in social settings, not as part of any law enforcement or medical reference. Most of them, not surprisingly, had very little close personal contact with women. It’s a pet peeve of mine - I have to fight the urge to ask them what species of “female” they’re referring to - but **Johanna’s** explanation makes me realize why I find the term so objectionable. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/24 "2012-10-01T02:09:33Z")
I don’t really like being reminded that gender matters to people - I have a masculine nickname, and I like it that way. I try not to use male/female nouns when I’m talking about other people - we have gendered pronouns, so I use those: “She’s the \*\*\*one \*\*\*over there with the long white hair and the hippie skirt.” (one vs “lady/woman/dame/etc”) or “I’m the kind of \*\*\*person \*\*\*who likes makeup for specific occasions.” (rather than girl/lady/woman). I also like being included in guys - that word is totally non-gendered to me, and appears to be that way for my friends also, based on their usage. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/25 "2012-10-01T04:06:20Z")
Yeah, this poll is asking about the times when it’s felt to be necessary to specify someone’s gender. I guess I trust that “person” is always available as a default for anyone at times when gender isn’t relevant. Sometimes people do find a reason to use gendered words, as in “The best man for the job is a woman” or “A woman’s place is in the House—and Senate.” I think there can be lots of legitimate reasons to use gendered words, though of course not as a rule always. But then we can avoid gender in English for the most part, if we choose to. Not all languages have that much flexibility. Like when a husband tells his wife he’s going to hang out with “a friend,” in Italian you’d have to say either “_un’amico_” (male friend) or “_un’amica_” (female friend). There’s no gender-neutral or ambiguous way to say it in Italian. No bluffing, you have to show your hand! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/26 "2012-10-01T06:47:54Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > That’s why I asked for “designation,” in the belief that I was choosing words carefully for clarity. By designation I meant a third-person reference as opposed to a term of address. My point was that I made the mistake, not you. I read too quickly. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/27 "2012-10-01T09:13:11Z")
I actually dislike being called “woman”, but that may be because the vibe I get of the word in Spanish (and that is my first language). Among other things, it sounds rude to say it to someone, even a stranger. If I’m a true stranger, call me by a title (lady, Ms, ma’am), even if it sounds like I’m old, than call me by “woman”. And if I’m no stranger, by my name. And if it is work related, my title should be there in the initial address somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![Corcaigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Corcaigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corcaigh)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/28 "2012-10-01T10:53:29Z")
I like to be called “a gal” I’m too old to be a girl, and too childish to be a woman, so it sort of (in my mind) forms a compromise ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/29 "2012-10-01T13:40:30Z")
To me one of the weird things about the year I spent in Seville is that there people call each other “girl/boy” regardless of age. 30 years after “becoming a woman”, I was a girl again! That said, in Spanish “_mujer_” is used as a form of addres very rarely (not that it’s very common in English either, and most of the people I’ve heard use it were translating from their mental Spanish), but as a description, I prefer woman or its most direct equivalent in any language to pretty much any other option. Some day I expect to become a crone, but that’s not usually a form of address either… ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/30 "2012-10-01T14:09:41Z")
I voted “lady”, but I’m quite partial to “wench” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/31 "2012-10-01T15:29:05Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I actually dislike being called “woman”, but that may be because the vibe I get of the word in Spanish (and that is my first language). Among other things, it sounds rude to say it to someone, even a stranger. If I’m a true stranger, call me by a title (lady, Ms, ma’am), even if it sounds like I’m old, than call me by “woman”. And if I’m no stranger, by my name. And if it is work related, my title should be there in the initial address somewhere… I wasn’t talking about forms of address. Sorry for the misunderstanding. As for forms of address, I very much agree with you. It’s proper to address women as either _ma’am_ or _miss_, and that’s what I expect of common courtesy, even in this century. To use “woman” as direct address is extremely insulting. Once or twice when I was little and my father got angry at my mother and addressed her as “Woman,” O MY GOD how I felt upset at that! It felt like killing part of my heart just to hear that. Anyway, that’s what we always heard in church—yeah, now I recall, that was on a Sunday morning, coming home from church, as a matter of fact—they always read from the gospel how Jesus mouthed off to his mom by saying “Woman…”—and the point of that is how shocking it was. Every so often out of the blue Jesus drops something that just makes you go “Dude, WTF?!” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/32 "2012-10-01T15:56:20Z")
> [@Cinnamon\_Imp](#): > > I voted “lady”, but I’m quite partial to “wench” 😉 Yeah, _wench_ can be fun. Mainly because of certain associated concepts. Both of them. But in all seriousness I screened out terms that the dictionaries had down as unequivocally derogatory, and _wench_ didn’t make the cut. The major dictionaries really concentrate hard on serious language, and mostly omit joke/fun language, ever notice? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/33 "2012-10-01T16:01:49Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Some day I expect to become a crone, but that’s not usually a form of address either… Once my grandson was born, I proudly embraced cronehood, as a Pagan value. But _crone_ has a narrower scope of meaning that doesn’t cover women in general, so it didn’t make the cut either. But yeah, cronehood is definitely very cool. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/34 "2012-10-01T16:09:43Z")
> [@Corcaigh](#): > > I like to be called “a gal” I’m too old to be a girl, and too childish to be a woman, so it sort of (in my mind) forms a compromise Indeed. I’ve thought hard about a feminine alternative to _guy_, and _gal_ is all I came up with. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/35 "2012-10-01T16:13:50Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Zero votes for “a female.” Now that’s telling. Are you paying attention, gentlemen? What exactly do you think you’ve proven, and to whom do you believe you’ve proven it? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/36 "2012-10-01T16:24:25Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > As for forms of address, I very much agree with you. It’s proper to address women as either _ma’am_ or _miss_, and that’s what I expect of common courtesy, even in this century. To use “woman” as direct address is extremely insulting. Once or twice when I was little and my father got angry at my mother and addressed her as “Woman,” O MY GOD how I felt upset at that! It felt like killing part of my heart just to hear that. Anyway, that’s what we always heard in church—yeah, now I recall, that was on a Sunday morning, coming home from church, as a matter of fact—they always read from the gospel how Jesus mouthed off to his mom by saying “Woman…”—and the point of that is how shocking it was. Every so often out of the blue Jesus drops something that just makes you go “Dude, WTF?!” My apology for the misunderstanding… In the case of pure, dry, description, then woman. Female should only be used if it is used as an adjective, not a noun. Curiously, for my work, when I have to describe my cases (animals), as part of the description I say the gender. So I usually include works like bull, cow, heifer, mare, gelding, queen, etc. But sometimes there is an animal name that is gender-neutral, and in that case, I add the “female” or “male” to describe it. Male kitten, female puppy, female lizard, male frog, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/37 "2012-10-01T19:46:15Z")
I like ‘lady’, though I am not one. It bespeaks an attempt to be polite. ‘Woman’ is a very dispersonal word, utterly undescriptive, quite objective. Just kinda cold. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/38 "2012-10-01T20:21:34Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > P.S. I’m having difficulty taking “dudette” as a real word. For all that I can see, it exists only as a joke word. I’m presuming that people not turn themselves into jokes. I’m a guy, but recently, I’ve heard women/girls/chicks/whatevers calling each other “dudes” in casual conversation. And, frankly, I’d rather they use “dudes” over “dudettes”. The terminology seems to be becoming less gender specific and formal. Personally, I like it, as I catch myself calling female friends “dudes” just out of habit from calling my males friends “dudes”. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/39 "2012-10-02T05:14:13Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > What exactly do you think you’ve proven, and to whom do you believe you’ve proven it? To those who couldn’t believe that women don’t want to be called “females,” and argued with us whether we should feel offended by it— It’s plain that women here overwhelmingly want to be called women and not “females.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103/40 "2012-10-02T12:28:21Z")
You left out “bitch” and “ho”. Not as sexist as you might think, I’ve seen my daughter approach a table of friends saying “what’s up, bitches?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-women-which-noun-do-you-prefer-to-be-designated-by/636103.md?page=3)