# Question of guilt **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 16, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-of-guilt/264725 "2004-09-16T22:58:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-of-guilt/264725/1 "2004-09-17T00:32:24Z")
Based on real events that happened in the Chicago suburbs the other day, suppose this situation: Several men gather at a popular restaurant to get on with some nefarious criminal type activities, probably having to do with the distribution and sale of illegal drugs. Due to unforeseen circumstances, the criminal type activities do not go off as planned. One of the parties involved draws a gun and begins shooting. Now some of the participants fall dead immediately. Others, after being wounded by the man with the gun, make it to their car, and attempt to speed away. The car makes it only to the intersection the restaurant is at before being involved in an massive accident. All persons fleeing in the vehicle are killed upon impact. Is the shooter guilty of the deaths of the persons in the car, or just an attempted murder/assault crime? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-of-guilt/264725/2 "2004-09-17T00:44:35Z")
Surely that’s for a jury to decide? ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-of-guilt/264725/3 "2004-09-17T00:45:23Z")
It certainly sounds like it fits the definition of [felony murder](http://www.legal-definitions.com/felony-murder.htm) > [@](#): > > felony-murder rule definition – this is the rule whereby a death associated with a violent felony, usually rape, burglary, or robbery, is murder even if there was no specific intent to murder. People who have actually studied the law, rather than watching episodes of _Law and Order_, will be along shortly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-of-guilt/264725/4 "2004-09-17T00:45:52Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > Is the shooter guilty of the deaths of the persons in the car, or just an attempted murder/assault crime? The shooter is likely liable for the deaths of the people in the car under the felony murder rule. When a death occurs during the commission of certain felonies, even if the actor is not the direct agent of the death, he is criminally liable for the death. The nexus between the crime and the death has to be a close one, but I’d certainly say that fleeing in a car that was still within firing distance before being hit qualifies as a tight nexus. ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-of-guilt/264725/5 "2004-09-16T22:58:21Z")
Don’t have my criminal law text book handy, but some jurisdictions don’t impose felony murder for the death of co-conspirators. Or is it just not co-conspirators killed but not murdered? If Illinois is such a state, this could be a complicating factor. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-of-guilt/264725/6 "2004-09-16T23:01:22Z")
Illinois does indeed have a felony-murder statute and I believe the actions you describe would satisfy the “nexus” requirement. I think, however, that Illinois imposes a reasonable expectation standard but I can’t be sure (not a criminal lawyer).