# Question on a JFK Assassination theory **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 11, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650 "2013-11-11T15:29:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/21 "2013-11-11T23:02:49Z")
Well, what about **Exapno’s** post? > [@](#): > > Look at what you’re saying about the conspirators. They chose a person who was already going around making threats. Then they trusted that he could get a rifle into his work place and shoot the President without any chance of him being discovered, even though anybody could have just walked in on him. Then after the shooting they failed to give him any instructions on how to get away. And they allowed him to be captured within 90 minutes. So they had to trust that he wouldn’t say anything about the conspiracy during his interrogation. Having given him two days to spill the beans, they sent another amateur in to kill him and trusted that he wouldn’t talk about the conspiracy. > > Did they have a Plan B? Were there a whole series of potential assassins lined up in case Oswald was noticed? The route was finalized shortly before the actual day. (Not changed; that appears to be another idiotic Garrisonism.) When was there time to do all this prep work of recruiting? > **Why is is that conspiracy theorists demand that their conspirators be incredibly perfect at hiding their conspiracy and yet be incredibly stupid in the execution of every phase of it?** The point is, using LHO as your assassin is idiotic. Having a barkeeper in charge of silencing your assassin is even dumber. The entire _incompetent_ sequence of events beggars belief in a conspiracy that is supposedly _competent_ enough be unexposed for _50 years_. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/22 "2013-11-11T23:14:35Z")
Too late, ThelmaLou. The CTers have already drowned us in expandio al absurdum (theories that require hundreds of people to have kept silent for five decades) or denyio al absurdum (ignoring established facts so they can make up their own version of reality). So tut-tutting me for a little absurdio is, well, absurd. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/23 "2013-11-11T23:40:50Z")
Who do you think was behind the assassination attempt of General Walker ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/24 "2013-11-11T23:55:39Z")
Now I get the love for CTs. ThelmaLou apparently maintains [an unusually low threshold of disbelief](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=707548) throughout life. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/25 "2013-11-12T00:00:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Now I get the love for CTs. ThelmaLou apparently maintains [an unusually low threshold of disbelief](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=707548) throughout life. Note to self: in the future, make irony less subtle. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/26 "2013-11-12T00:02:27Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Too late, ThelmaLou. The CTers have already drowned us in expandio al absurdum (theories that require hundreds of people to have kept silent for five decades) or denyio al absurdum (ignoring established facts so they can make up their own version of reality). > > So tut-tutting me for a little absurdio is, well, absurd. Yes, but I have a higher standard for you. Is that a mistake? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/27 "2013-11-12T00:33:50Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Note to self: in the future, make irony less subtle. Your subtle wit certainly fooled everybody in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/28 "2013-11-12T01:02:20Z")
There’s just a time you can’t take one more stupid question that no one even passingly familiar with the facts should have asked. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/29 "2013-11-12T02:23:47Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > There were a lot of people in the US government that wanted JFK gone. This, to me, is absolutely the oddest claim that seems to get repeated over and over. JFK was not a particularly powerful president. He was not pushing any particularly odd programs. He was hardly shutting down the military or the various spy agencies. What was the purpose of an assassination that could not have been accomplished just as easily by rigging the next election (that was only twelve months away)? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/30 "2013-11-12T02:32:51Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > It only takes about five seconds thought on this: So LBJ, Khrushchev, Castro, Gallo, Hoover, McCone and (choose one) Arthur Miller or Joe DiMaggio sit down at a table and decide JFK really has to go. My personal theory has always been that it was a hit taken out by Joe DiMaggio as revenge for Kennedy having had Marilyn Monroe killed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/31 "2013-11-12T05:19:31Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This, to me, is absolutely the oddest claim that seems to get repeated over and over. > > JFK was not a particularly powerful president. He was not pushing any particularly odd programs. He was hardly shutting down the military or the various spy agencies. > > What was the purpose of an assassination that could not have been accomplished just as easily by rigging the next election (that was only twelve months away)? He offended all the Cold Warriors during the Cuban Missile Crisis. JFK and his brother were alone in limiting escalation and turning down the advice of the Pentagon and CIA, exactly the opposite of what they did for the Bay of Pigs invasion. Compare and contrast the two episodes. BOP was a disaster because they uncritically accepted advice. CMC did not end in disaster for the US. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/32 "2013-11-12T05:37:31Z")
And there were high-ranking military folks at the time who would have preferred a disaster? 😕 To the extent I’m following you, I’m not following you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/33 "2013-11-12T06:26:27Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And there were high-ranking military folks at the time who would have preferred a disaster? 😕 To the extent I’m following you, I’m not following you. There were definitely high ranking people what wanted to bomb the sites right away. That would have been a disaster as some missiles were already in place, which didn’t come to light for decades. We came within minutes of both conventional and nuclear war during the CMC, and it didn’t come to war because Kennedy and Khrushchev both went against the advice of their military advisers, but Kennedy more so. Khrushchev was removed from power in 1964, probably for his handling of the CMC. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/34 "2013-11-12T06:32:42Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And there were high-ranking military folks at the time who would have preferred a disaster? Curtis LeMay. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/35 "2013-11-12T15:24:58Z")
Let’s not forget that there was at least one four star general that even LeMay considered insane and reckless. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/36 "2013-11-12T15:32:36Z")
Which is all the proof we need to accuse this nameless general of shooting Kennedy? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/37 "2013-11-12T16:52:14Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Let’s not forget that there was at least one four star general that even LeMay considered insane and reckless. Wait, I thought your theory was rogues in the CIA. How does the military fit in? See, this is the problem with CTs. You work backward. You start with a solution and then find a trail - any trail, of any sort - to lead it back to the question. That might work for the police with an ordinary killing; if they know who benefits they can look for evidence. But it’s also dangerous. We know that police have often made mistakes in doing so, because they let the theory overcome the evidence, and sometimes have even manufactured the evidence to fit the theory. Better evidence, like DNA identification, has come along and proven that their original theories were wrong freeing dozens of people who have been in jail for decades. The Kennedy assassination is similar. Better evidence, like computer recreations, has indeed appeared, although in this case they serve to reinforce the original findings. Other apparent evidence, like the phantom recording of a fourth bullet, has been discredited by more sophisticated analysis. The case against Oswald just gets stronger with additional evidence. Which is exactly what you would expect if it were true. None of that actual scientific evidence matters to some people, which is why we label them as conspiracy theorists and mock them. They need to come up with wilder and wilder scenarios to keep their cherished beliefs. It’s very hard now not to say that Oswald was a shooter, but instead of giving up they say things like: well, maybe he was hypnotized by a conspiracy of haters in the government. If you don’t understand why that generates ridicule the problem is entirely yours. We don’t have to prove that any fantasy scenario you can make up is wrong. You are responsible for providing the evidence that would make us abandon the mountains of rational, physical evidence that exists. And there is [a mountain of evidence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts) that lone nuts try to kill presidents. A few members of fanatical organizations have as well, but no evidence of government agents. Or organized crime. Or any type of organization that could successfully hide such an operation. If you want us to believe something that has never happened over something that happens with sad regularity, make a real case. Don’t just throw stories unsupported by evidence at us. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/38 "2013-11-12T17:16:52Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > There were a lot of people in the US government that wanted JFK gone. Couldn’t this be said of every President, ever? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/39 "2013-11-12T18:37:34Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I’m not suggesting that Oswald didn’t do it. Another straw man. \Oswald said he was a patsy. You have to 100 percent discount that. ? [QUOTE=MacMillan Dictionary] patsy 1. someone who is blamed for something that they did not do 2. someone who is stupid and can be tricked easily [/QUOTE] It appears to me that you are 100 per cent discounting definition 1, the definition that Oswald was apparently using. Or do you think he was attempting a stupidity defense? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650/40 "2013-11-12T19:08:02Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > It appears to me that you are 100 per cent discounting definition 1, the definition that Oswald was apparently using. Or do you think he was attempting a stupidity defense? “Patsy” means more than simply a person being falsely accused. The word “patsy” connotes someone who is blamed by someone who knows he didn’t do it. It’s a setup, he’s the fall guy. But you knew that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-a-jfk-assassination-theory/673650.md?page=3)