# Question on fasting **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842 "2013-01-02T17:17:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/41 "2013-01-03T19:08:11Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > I get hostile when defenders of a topic refuse to point to valid cites for their claims, try to substitute misdirection and anecdotal evidence, keep changing the subject and then claim they don’t want to talk about it with any but the faithful (or “neutral” aka “gullible.”) > > No one here has argued against healthy diets (especially healthier than most people eat). That’s not a justification for or proof of benefits for fasting. > > And now you’ve changed the subject again: “calorie restriction” is not fasting. There are indeed studies on various types of restricted diets, including restrictions on total calories, that show a variety of results. > > If there are any studies, run by a recognized authority under acceptable research methodology, that show positive benefits for fasting, please do post them. Or at least stop dismissing the call for such reasonable proof and substituting other topics for your answers. OK, fasting, pretty much by definition, _is_ calorie restriction. Well, maybe not to people eating junk, who would just eat extra food on their non-fasting days, but…even that’s an extreme example. So yeah, I most definitely did NOT change the subject. And you’re right, there have been mixed results on calorie restriction studies. HOWEVER, you seemed to think that fasting is “automatically dangerous and bad and never in any way beneficial”, and I’d say the mixed results of those studies shows otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/42 "2013-01-03T19:52:48Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > So yeah, I most definitely did NOT change the subject. Yeah, you did, and you’re pretty obsessed with this false dichotomy of “people stuffing themselves full of junk all the time” and… well, whatever the hell you’re talking about. A division you created and keep using to justify your lack of any valid cites for the benefits of fasting. Do continue any time you want to actually address the topic with something other than misdirection and anecdotal info. I’ll be ignoring you and the other woo-pitchers until then. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/43 "2013-01-03T20:02:36Z")
> [@SerafinaPekala](#): > > Wasnt a cite. Just information for someone to form their own opinion of fasting. 🙂 When you make a specific claim, as you did, and follow it with links to information related to that claim, those are called citations, and either they support what you said or they’re a misdirecting waste of time. > **[Misdirection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misdirection)** > > Misdirection may refer to: [http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pseudoscience](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pseudoscience) > **[Facts About Food Fads](https://www.webmd.com/depression/features/fad-food-facts)** > > What is the evidence that vitamins, minerals, or similar substances have an effect on mood disorders? And can these substances actually improve moods or even treat depression? ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/44 "2013-01-03T20:21:12Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > List it. [http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/1/69.full](http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/1/69.full) [http://mikrobiologie.uni-graz.at/lehre\_server/MOL735\_Literaturseminar/Varady\_2007\_AmJClinNutr.pdf](http://mikrobiologie.uni-graz.at/lehre_server/MOL735_Literaturseminar/Varady_2007_AmJClinNutr.pdf) > **[Improvements in LDL particle size and distribution by short-term alternate...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20880415/)** > > Alternate day modified fasting (ADMF) beneficially modulates several indicators of CHD risk, but its effects on LDL particle size have never been tested. Accordingly, we examined the effects of ADMF on LDL particle size and distribution in obese... > **[Improvements in coronary heart disease risk indicators by alternate-day...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20300080/)** > > The ability of alternate-day fasting (ADF) to modulate adipocyte parameters in a way that is protective against coronary heart disease (CHD) has yet to be tested. Accordingly, we examined the effects of ADF on adipokine profile, body composition, and... > **[Alternate-day fasting protects the rat heart against age-induced inflammation...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19818847/)** > > The free radical theory of aging is currently one of the most popular. In parallel, many studies have demonstrated the association of fibrosis and increased oxidative stress in the pathogenesis of some chronic human diseases, and fibrosis is often... > **[Short-term modified alternate-day fasting: a novel dietary strategy for...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19793855/)** > > These findings suggest that ADF is a viable diet option to help obese individuals lose weight and decrease CAD risk. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as UIC-004-2009. > **[Chronic intermittent fasting improves the survival following large myocardial...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19059263/)** > > Chronic heart failure (CHF) is the major cause of death in the developed countries. Calorie restriction is known to improve the recovery in these patients; however, the exact mechanism behind this protective effect is unknown. Here we demonstrate the... > **[Intermittent fasting during Ramadan attenuates proinflammatory cytokines and...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23244540/)** > > Intermittent fasting and caloric restriction have been shown to extend life expectancy and reduce inflammation and cancer promotion in animal models. It was hypothesized that intermittent prolonged fasting practiced during the month of Ramadan (RIF)... > **[Interleukin-6, C-reactive protein and biochemical parameters during prolonged...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17374948/)** > > Our results demonstrate that prolonged intermittent fasting in a model like Ramadan has some positive effects on the inflammatory status of the body and on the risk factors for cardiovascular diseases such as homocysteine, CRP and TC/HDL ratio. > **[Caloric restriction and intermittent fasting: two potential diets for...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16899414/)** > > The vulnerability of the nervous system to advancing age is all too often manifest in neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases. In this review article we describe evidence suggesting that two dietary interventions,... > **[Effects of intermittent fasting on serum lipid levels, coagulation status and...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15802901/)** > > Our results demonstrate that intermittent fasting led to some beneficial changes in serum HDL and plasma homocysteine levels, and the coagulation status. These changes may be due to omitting at least one meal when the body was particularly... > **[Favorable changes in lipid profile: the effects of fasting after Ramadan -...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23112824/)** > > We observed significant improvements in HDL-C, and LDL-C levels even after four weeks post Ramadan. Ramadan-like fasting may be considered for more effective lipid and lipoprotein control. > **[Effects of Ramadan fasting on cardiovascular risk factors: a prospective...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22963582/)** > > This study shows a significant improvement in 10 years coronary heart disease risk score and other cardiovascular risk factors such as lipids profile, systolic blood pressure, weight, BMI and waist circumference in subjects with a previous history of... > **[Weight change during and after Ramadan fasting - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22083256/)** > > Observers of Ramadan lose on average about a kilogram of weight over 4 weeks, and the lost weight is quickly regained. Current weight management treatments generally assume that skipping meals leads to weight gain and advise against it. The finding... ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/45 "2013-01-03T22:42:09Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Yeah, you did, and you’re pretty obsessed with this false dichotomy of “people stuffing themselves full of junk all the time” and… well, whatever the hell you’re talking about. A division you created and keep using to justify your lack of any valid cites for the benefits of fasting. > > Do continue any time you want to actually address the topic with something other than misdirection and anecdotal info. I’ll be ignoring you and the other woo-pitchers until then. Calorie restriction and fasting are, for all practical purposes, the same. A Venn diagram of the two would overlap. Do you know what a Venn diagram is? Do you need a cite for that? Maybe you can find it on wikipedia, which is always an unbiased, complete source of info on controversial topics. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/46 "2013-01-03T23:48:23Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Calorie restriction and fasting are, for all practical purposes, the same. I’d have to question that. In some cases, a significant enough change in degree means you have a different phenomena. For example, consider the difference between donating a pint of blood and donating ten pints of blood. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/47 "2013-01-04T00:13:48Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > (List of papers related to fasting.) Kudos for putting your money where your mouth is, or something like that. I’ve only had time to skim these, and unless I missed an exception, all of them deal with two topics: Alternate-day fasting for obese and morbidly obese subjects with heart issues, and the month of half-day fasting for Ramadan. ADF is a one-day fast alternated with a normal (for certain values of normal) eating day, and these studies are of individuals who are caught between an urgent need to reduce body weight without undue cardiac stress. The studies are not of fasting, per se, but a calorie reduction plan that forces weight shedding without heart strain. Ramadan fasting is not true fasting for most Muslims; they abstain for the daylight hours and then eat more or less normally at night, often with an extra meal very late. So it’s approximately 12 hours of fasting alternated with 12 hours of normal eating for a month. These are rather specialized situations and I don’t see that they are representative of the more general sense of fasting for 2-3-7 days that most of the health claims are made for. It’s possible there’s linkage between these results and the longer term but I’d have to see studies that examine that linkage. Can you point to any that have studied fasting in a more conventional pattern? ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/48 "2013-01-04T00:24:21Z")
> [@Mornac](#): > > During Lent I always fast on weekdays. I have 2 cups of coffee in the morning and I drink as needed during the day (usually water, but I take anything offered). In the evening I eat whatever happens to be for dinner. I eat until I’m full and I don’t eat again after I walk away from the table until dinner the following night. Read this yesterday, started it today. A bit of a headache by sundown but no problem during the day - hopefully this will work, at least for a month (going to shoot for 30 days because why not). ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/49 "2013-01-04T00:38:42Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Ramadan fasting is not true fasting for most Muslims; they abstain for the daylight hours and then eat more or less normally at night, often with an extra meal very late. So it’s approximately 12 hours of fasting alternated with 12 hours of normal eating for a month. > > These are rather specialized situations and I don’t see that they are representative of the more general sense of fasting for 2-3-7 days that most of the health claims are made for. It’s possible there’s linkage between these results and the longer term but I’d have to see studies that examine that linkage. Can you point to any that have studied fasting in a more conventional pattern? Every time you sleep you’re fasting, most people are anyway. Ramadan fasting is one form along the continuum of fasting. You’ve already disparaged links to blogs as cites but tough luck [here’s another one](http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread27894.html). Anyone reading the thread who has a genuine interest in fasting will find it helpful. I’ve been intermittent fasting for over a year and think it’s great. Fasting has been extensively studied in many forms, Brad Pilon’s book Eat Stop Eat has the most references of any work I’ve seen so far if you really want to see studies relating to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/50 "2013-01-04T00:46:24Z")
Another source I found very helpful in beginning fasting was [Dr. John Berardi’s experience with them.](http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting) That link is to the index and you can download the entire PDF. Again, I think it will be quite helpful for anyone interested in trying it. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/51 "2013-01-04T05:42:49Z")
> [@MsBatt](#): > > How much weight have you already lost with WW? How much more do you want to lose? Down 23 so far, I want to lose 30 more by April 15. And in their defense, I should say that my friends are advocating this as an adjunct to, rather than a replacement for, the WW program. Kind of a JATO unit, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842/52 "2013-01-04T05:49:34Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Down 23 so far, I want to lose 30 more by April 15. > > And in their defense, I should say that my friends are advocating this as an adjunct to, rather than a replacement for, the WW program. Kind of a JATO unit, so to speak. I don’t recommend fasting for weight loss. You’re better off just permanently and gradually changing your eating habits. it’s not easy, but it’s better than yo-yoing up and down. But I admit, it does work to take off weight quickly. A pound a day during the fast is common. My ex-wife did several 20-day juice fasts, and lost around a pound a day. I did a couple myself, and had the same result. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-fasting/645842.md?page=2)