# Question on labor law and breaks **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-labor-law-and-breaks/799223 "2017-10-18T13:22:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-labor-law-and-breaks/799223/21 "2017-10-19T17:08:10Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Well, that’s really the nut of the problem. Either she’s doing a very good job, or she’s stealing and lying. If you want to have a policy, you pretty much have to enforce it, otherwise you open yourself up accusations of selective punishment. > > Isn’t there some sort of time clock software available (or an actual time clock) where your employees would clock out for breaks, then clock back in? She does a good job though. Her dogs look good, and she does them in a timely fashion, she’s very useful when I need help in reception as I still am not very good at taking notes for groomers from very particular clients. But, she has also been stealing and lying. Those are not exclusive, unfortunately. And yeah, that’s a big reason I need to address it, as if I let her get away with it, I have to let everyone get away with it. We do have a time clock. I bought that a couple months ago to upgrade from sign in sheets, partly in order to deal with employees abusing the time system, partly to save me a few minutes of closing paperwork, and partly to eliminate a potential source of error in payroll (I double check sheets when I put them in, and then again when I run payroll, but I have, in the last 5 years, made 2 mistakes that were not realized till after payroll had run, which is very embarrassing and doesn’t give a great boost to morale). It does mean that at least the times that they clock in and out are accurate (did have employees putting in incorrect times before [accidental or deliberate? you decide]). Downside is, is that has made timekeeping abuses harder to not notice…:rolleyes: > [@kopek](#): > > Consider a cheaper replacement and a smaller raise all around. Getting some more money and not having to do too much more work would make me a happy camper. > > And don’t bet on a morale drop with the action; you could be surprised. Ages ago at another job the bosses all thought we loved our one co-worker and they were actually afraid to cut him. When they did we had a massive going away party ----- the day after his last day ---- just basically for ourselves. He was a great guy and we loved eating lunch with him but no-one, and I mean NO-ONE wanted to work anywhere near him and we were all much happier with him gone. Us peasants surprise you capitalist dogs like that sometimes. 🙂 We’re small, less than 15 people here, everyone knows each other, and are acquaintances if not friends. It’s always a bit dangerous to meddle in that dynamic. Plus, she makes treats for my dog. Not saying I won’t do what needs to be done, if it needs to be done, just rather avoid it if possible. Fortunately, she’s followed time procedure correctly the last couple of days so far, so maybe she’ll turn around. And I was a peasant for the first couple decades of my working career, it is only relatively recently that I’ve been on the other side of that divide. Remember, even capitalist dogs need grooming. 🙂 > [@doreen](#): > > You can ask your lawyer, ( or your state department of labor) but it seems pretty clear to me. You don’t have to provide any breaks at all, and you must pay for breaks of less than 20 minutes. If a break is longer than 30 minutes, you don’t need to pay for any of it. There isn’t any reason to think you couldn’t pay for a half of a 30 minute break. In fact, I think policies that prohibit hybrid breaks do so for the opposite reason - so that the company doesn’t have to pay for the break at all. For example ,at my job people can take 30 minutes, 45 minutes or an hour for lunch. But everyone must work 7.5 hours a day and you can’t combine a discretionary paid break with your lunch - you have to paid for a break that is less than 20 minutes, but taking 45 minutes for lunch is a single unpaid break , not a paid 15 minute break combined with an unpaid 30 minute break. I couldn’t find anything that prohibited it, and it would make logical sense that you could do that, but one thing I have discovered is that the law is not always obvious or logical, and obscure, nonsensical laws are the ones that get you (just ask anyone who’s been busted for picking up a crow feather). I suppose I should put in a call to the department of labor, see what their feelings on the matter are. I’ve looked over their website, not seeing anything that specifically addresses my question. And, when it comes to the law it is _not_ better to ask for forgiveness than for permission. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Fair enough man, just seems overly complicated for no reason to me. But I’ve only had 1 hourly wage job my entire life, as a waiter when I was in high school. I went to work, clocked in, and then prepped for dinner. But after that, the cook and I just sat around “on break” for 30 minutes or so waiting for the first customer. I was still getting paid, but still just waiting. It would be overly complicated for my boss to require me to “clock out” during that time and then “clock in” when the first customer came in. > > If you are saying that your groomers, from the second they clock in until the second they clock out are actively doing stuff because you have that many clients, then that’s good for you. I don’t see how you could even fit an unpaid break into that time. I guess I’m just used to salaried positions, where I get paid for 8 hours, and as long as everything gets done it’s cool if I go get coffee or smoke or whatever. > > Glad your business is doing good though! I intentionally schedule the dogs so that there are always dogs to be worked on. Bathers come in first to get dogs ready for the groomers, then the groomers come in and start working on those dogs. Dogs can wait for a bit while someone is on break, or if someone is running behind. There are occasions when no shows put me in a position to have people on the clock and no dogs to do, which is a great time for them to take their breaks, though occasionally I still have downtime that I am paying them for. From a purely business perspective, I would really rather they just work straight through without stopping at all, but I recognize that that is unrealistic and would put too much stress on them, ultimately lowering their productivity, which is why I encourage them to take appropriate breaks. I’ve had nearly as many salaried positions as hourly, and most of them, the salary just meant that they didn’t have to pay you minimum wage for hours worked any more. Not that they were not managerial or administrative positions, so passed that test, but there were few that didn’t pretty much require 60 hours at a minimum. One particular fast food place I was at, I rarely put in less than 90 hours. Fortunately, those experiences makes it easier to work the 80+ hour weeks that I work now, especially since I’m not doing it for someone else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-labor-law-and-breaks/799223.md?page=1)