# Question on the meaning of Life **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933 "2010-04-21T23:37:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/121 "2010-04-23T06:03:30Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Tigers eat meat > > Tigers are also _made of_ meat. > > Baby tigers are probably more tender and juicy than adult ones. > > As far as I can tell, tigers do pretty much whatever they like, without God or anyone else deciding right and wrong for them > > And yet tigers don’t generally eat their own young. > > Why not? What’s stopping them? Because every single tiger is descended from a long line of tigers that did not eat their young . . . or at least did not eat ALL their young. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/122 "2010-04-23T07:48:00Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You missed what I said. Actually, I think you missed what I said, but it doesn’t really matter. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/123 "2010-04-23T07:49:50Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The tigers with an eat-your-own-young gene weren’t able to produce offspring who lived long enough to produce thrir own offspring. > [@panache45](#): > > Because every single tiger is descended from a long line of tigers that did not eat their young . . . or at least did not eat ALL their young. Indeed. And humans are likewise descended from humans that didn’t all go berserk and do whatever they wanted, to the detriment and destruction of each other (well, not all of the time, anyway) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/124 "2010-04-23T07:55:01Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Besides, there are some animals that do eat their own young in certain circumstances. Indeed - it works really well for crayfish, as I understand it - flood the environment with thousands of offspring, let them go out and collect resources, fatten themselves up, then eat most of them. Maybe the crayfish God smiles upon such behaviour (well, insofar as it’s possible to smile with chitinous mandibles). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/125 "2010-04-23T07:56:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, they taste bad, what with heads made out of ruber and tails made out of spings. 😃 You win the thread. We can all go home now. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/126 "2010-04-23T08:20:05Z")
Thanks. (You know the typos are deliberate, right?) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/127 "2010-04-23T08:31:28Z")
The fundamental meaning of life is to avoid death both individually and collectively. Any organism that didn’t act with this goal as its primary motivator is dead now. As far as the concept that life has no meaning w/o God, I don’t agree. Scandanavian countries are extremely atheistic, but they have very high functioning societies. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/128 "2010-04-23T09:14:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Thanks. > > (You know the typos are deliberate, right?) You made me scroll back in panic to check if I’d spelt it with a double Guh. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/129 "2010-04-23T09:23:43Z")
Well, I don’t want to panic you… I just figured if tiggers had heads of rubber and tails of springs, it followed that tigers have heads of ruber and tails of spings. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/130 "2010-04-23T09:25:56Z")
You’re too clever for me by approximately 12% ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/131 "2010-04-23T13:00:52Z")
:smack: Me too. But you’re fun fun fun fun fun. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/132 "2010-04-23T13:10:10Z")
> [@Hold\_Fast](#): > > First of, I’ll start by getting it out in the open that I’m a Christian, and so **therefore it should go without saying what I believe to be the meaning of life.** Getting back to this, several people have noted here that it _doesn’t_ go without saying what you believe to be the meaning of life. Can you elaborate? If I were to guess, someone who believes in an infinite afterlife would view this earthly life as like the green room, waiting for the main event. Therefore not very important. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/133 "2010-04-23T13:10:52Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The fundamental meaning of life is to avoid death both individually and collectively. Any organism that didn’t act with this goal as its primary motivator is dead now. > > As far as the concept that life has no meaning w/o God, I don’t agree. Scandanavian countries are extremely atheistic, but they have very high functioning societies. No matter what statement is made about life, views to the contrary are available. Many animals and humans have sacrificed themselves for others. The literature is full of such stories. The soldier that falls on the grenade to save his friends, etc. Life is not about survival, but about quality. Learning to love all others is the primary goal. Understanding self and building self confidence is another goal. None of this would matter if life didn’t continue after the death of the body. It is believing in life after death, that keeps one going in really hard, bad times. It is easy to believe in anything when times are good, and troubles are few. This has brought many atheists to say religion is only a crutch which they don’t need. Religion is only for the weak. But many have found otherwise when the chips are down. Most Scandinavian countries have cradle to grave welfare programs for their citizens which make them less likely to believe in a higher power. Atheists are often self-converted at death, I volunteered for Hospice work and seen this many times. I am not saying to stop being an atheist, just to consider the bigger picture of life. I have no need to convert anyone, I am secure in my beliefs. > **[Near Death Experiences and Atheism - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](https://aleroy.com/blog/archives/3028/near-death-experiences-and-atheism)** > > httpvhd://youtube.com/watch?v=KNVUUGgrFyE This video is part 2 of a series of videos about Howard Storm. It’s full title is “Near Death Experiences & Atheism part 2 of 5 apologetics.” I decided to post only this video of the series, but the... This is a common event. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/134 "2010-04-23T13:22:34Z")
Then how do you explain peoples who act altruistically without having faith? Who make it through hard times without leaning on religion? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/135 "2010-04-23T13:22:49Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > No matter what statement is made about life, views to the contrary are available. Many animals and humans have sacrificed themselves for others. The literature is full of such stories. The soldier that falls on the grenade to save his friends, etc. That just sounds like the _collective_ survival that **Wesley Clark** might have had in mind. A group of soldiers who all decided to jump on the grenade all together might be a better counterexample, if you know of such a thing ever happening. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/136 "2010-04-23T13:35:48Z")
> [@Hold\_Fast](#): > > A meaning of life however, is self explanatory. It’s not true that the phrase “meaning of life” is self-explanatory. In every other context, “meaning of X” means either “implication of X” or “definition of X”. As far as I know, the phrase “meaning of life” is the only use of the word “meaning” that doesn’t conform to that rule. This makes the meaning of the phrase “meaning of life” _obscure_. It’s important for someone discussing the meaning of life to make it clear what kind of thing they’re after. > [@](#): > > Meaning, or purpose= the reason for which something exists or for which it has been done or made. So you are asking what is the reason for which we exist. When people answer “There is no reason for which we exist,” you’ve responded by saying that this means there is no reason to act morally. Can you elaborate on that? Why do you think that for X to act morally is only justified if X believes there is a reason for which she exists? What if someone offered the following account. “I act morally because moral people, on the whole, live happier lives than other people–and I pursue happiness because it feels better than unhappiness.” That’s not an account I’d give, but it looks basically coherent to me, and it justifies morality without appeal to a “reason for which I exist.” What is the problem with this reasoning, as you see it? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/137 "2010-04-23T14:52:35Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Then how do you explain peoples who act altruistically without having faith? Who make it through hard times without leaning on religion? I know it happens that those without faith are altruistic, I attended a Unitarian church for several years a long time ago. There were atheist members there that were very kind and giving to others in need. The church was “All Souls” anyone could join. I am also sure that atheists have gone to their graves still atheists. But that was not the point. People who have faith are not weak nor do they believe in nonsense. Religious organizations do the most charity work in the world. We need them, the poor and hungry need them. Life is not about being just one way or the other. Life is full of contradictions, ambiguity, and equivocalness. We are not the judges of life, or of our fellow man. It is best to learn all we can about everything in life, this leads to balance, not bias. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/138 "2010-04-23T14:58:29Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > That just sounds like the _collective_ survival that **Wesley Clark** might have had in mind. A group of soldiers who all decided to jump on the grenade all together might be a better counterexample, if you know of such a thing ever happening. I have never heard of such a thing happening in real life. I was on a Navy ship that got caught in a Hurricane, life was in doubt for a few hours. I saw some helping others at the risk of their life, and others running away to hide. People never do the same thing at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/139 "2010-04-23T15:10:18Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I have never heard of such a thing happening in real life. > > I was on a Navy ship that got caught in a Hurricane, life was in doubt for a few hours. I saw some helping others at the risk of their life, and others running away to hide. People never do the same thing at the same time. Indeed - collective survival - which was what **Wesley Clark** mentioned, that you disagreed with, then you went on to describe examples of it. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933/140 "2010-04-23T15:50:48Z")
If religion were the basis for morality then we would expect that non-religious countries would have higher crime, as would the less religious US states. In fact, the exact opposite is true. If you look at US states the things you would characterize as moral behavior (divorce rate, crime, gluttony) are worse in the bible belt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-the-meaning-of-life/536933.md?page=8)