# Question on US soldier's oath **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 7, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-us-soldiers-oath/739749 "2015-12-07T23:24:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-us-soldiers-oath/739749/21 "2015-12-08T17:16:10Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > My father and my mother’s father both fought in WW2, during which the Japanese Empire was not only a direct threat to Australia but was [bombing us](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Australia,_1942%E2%80%9343) on a regular basis. Not on the level of the air war in Europe, but more than the US ever got bombed, and that’s including Pearl Harbour. Australia’s participation in the Second World War certainly _became_ defensive, but it’s worth noting that Australia entered the war before Japan did. Australia declared War on Germany in September 1939, and it’s hard to present that as being motivated by a desire to defend Australia - a desire to defend Britain or Poland, possibly, but hardly a desire to defend Australia. Japan didn’t enter the War on the Axis side until June 1940. > [@Shakester](#): > > As for the other war my relatives fought in, WW1, I think that counts as defending Australia, in as much as we were defending western democracy more than three years before the US got involved. I think you could question, to put it no higher, the claim that the Great War was fought to “defend democracy”. Nobody claimed that at the time (“the defence of small nations” was the official line) and, if they had, they would have been laughed out of court. Imperial Germany and the Austro-Hungarian Empire were both multi-party democracies, by the standards of 1914, and Australia togged out on the same side as Russia, which was much the least democratic of the major belligerents. In any event, even if you could make a plausible case for the claim that the First World War was fought to “defend Western democracy”, fighting a war to defend Western democracy is quite different to fighting a war to defend Australia, which was your original claim. > [@Shakester](#): > > ETA: The actual point of my first comment was the the US constitution is not that special a thing, and there’s plenty to defend in western democracies that don’t happen to be the USA. Oh, sure. Whether most of Australia’s wars have been fought to defend it, though, is another question entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-us-soldiers-oath/739749/22 "2015-12-08T18:05:50Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > ETA: The actual point of my first comment was the the US constitution is not that special a thing, and there’s plenty to defend in western democracies that don’t happen to be the USA. Whether something is “special” is a subjective issue. It is perfectly clear, however, that the Constitution is a very important document as it pertains to U.S. law. There’s no insinuation in the oath, or I’m sure among any poster here, that the U.S. Constitution is central to freedom and liberty of the West as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-us-soldiers-oath/739749/23 "2015-12-09T06:31:39Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > My dad and grandfather and various other relatives fought in wars to defend my country despite Australia not having a constitution at the time. I guess they thought it was worth defending anyway. Did you not happen to notice the “US” in the title of the thread, or the words “United States” in the original post? ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-us-soldiers-oath/739749/24 "2015-12-09T20:08:42Z")
I think the prototype for the military oaths is the Oath of Office for the President spelled out in Article II, Section 1, clause 8 of the Constitution: > [@](#): > > Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:— “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will do the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” Similarly, as noted above, the Oaths Clause in Article VI provides: > [@](#): > > The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution. The military oaths appear to be variants of the President’s oath set forth in the text of the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-us-soldiers-oath/739749/25 "2015-12-10T05:23:41Z")
I vaguely recall an episode of MASH where Klinger gets drunk and, contrary to his constant scheming to get discharged, demands to re-enlist and insists that Col. Potter administer the oath. Potter of course knows that Klinger doesn’t really want to re-up, so he fools him by giving him the oath for the President instead of the soldier’s oath. Klinger stumbles back in the following morning, half-remembering having sought to re-enlist, and asks Potter if he can still be discharged. Potter jokes that he will now have to be impeached. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-on-us-soldiers-oath/739749.md?page=1)