# Question re: “I Am a Strange Loop” **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [September 13, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044 "2023-09-13T13:12:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/1 "2023-09-13T13:12:40Z")
In one chapter of _I Am a Strange Loop_, Douglas R. Hofstadter illustrates Gödel’s incompleteness theorem via an elaborate metaphor involving two fictional stage plays: “_Prince Hyppia: Math Dramatica_” and “_The Posh Shop Picketeers_.” The first title is an obvious enough pun on _Principia Mathematica_, but what’s the pun supposed to be in _The Posh Shop Picketeers_? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/2 "2023-09-13T22:17:16Z")
Hmm. I looked at excerpts of “Strange Loop” and both “plays” have authors who are clearly versions of Whitehead and Russell, so I suspect “Posh Shop Picketeers” is (somehow) also a reference to Principia - but I’m darned if I can see how ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/3 "2023-09-13T22:48:31Z")
It may be notable that Posh ends with sh, shop starts with sh and ends with p, and picketeers starts with p. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/4 "2023-09-13T23:51:14Z")
Could “picketeers” be “pictures”? Though I’m not sure how much that helps… ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/5 "2023-09-13T23:59:56Z")
“Picketeers” isn’t a word, it has an extra e. That makes me wonder if it’s an anagram rather than a pun. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/6 "2023-09-14T00:15:09Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > That makes me wonder if it’s an anagram rather than a pun. The cheese shop skit prop. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/7 "2023-09-14T00:38:34Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Hmm. I looked at excerpts of “Strange Loop” and both “plays” have authors who are clearly versions of Whitehead and Russell And the characters have references ([from here](https://digitalphysics.ru/pdf/Kaminskii_A_V/I_Am_a_Strange_Loop--Douglas_Hofstadter.pdf)): - The Posh Shop Picketeers, written by social activist playwright Rosalyn Wadhead (Russell / Whitehead) - This play is about a wildcat strike called by the workers at Alf and Bertie’s Posh Shop (Alfred / Bertrand) - the world-famous play Prince Hyppia: Math Dramatica, penned in the years 1910–1913 by the celebrated British playwright Y. Ted Enrustle (Whitehead / Russell) Here’s a subtle one that took me a minute to get: - In fact, the picketing Posh Shop worker named “Cagey”, who disgustedly proclaims, after a brash matron pushes her aside and arrogantly strides into Alf and Bertie’s upscale showroom “Cagey” = KG = Kurt Godel. I think _The Posh Shop Picketeers_ is probably a Godel reference specifically, but I couldn’t say what. Though maybe it somehow encompasses all of them and is a more general math reference. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/8 "2023-09-14T01:08:18Z")
_The Posh Shop Picketeers_ was allegedly written in 1931, which is the same year that _On Formally Undecidable Propositions in Principia Mathematica and Related Systems_ was published. So, not likely to be a coincidence. But it’s hard to see any other connection. Posh is an anagram of shop, which is possibly relevant. As are the years 1931 and 1913 (the year _Principia Mathematica_ was finished). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/9 "2023-09-14T01:15:22Z")
This feels like a stretch, but: _On Formally Undecidable Propositions in Principia Mathematica and Related Systems_ Formally =\> Formal =\> Posh Propositions =\> Prop =\> Shop Principia =\> Princip =\> Picket Related Systems =\> RS =\> eers ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/10 "2023-09-14T01:22:03Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Formally =\> Formal =\> Posh > Propositions =\> Prop =\> Shop > Principia =\> Princip =\> Picket > Related Systems =\> RS =\> eers Impressive! I think this might be it. Thanks all! ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-re-i-am-a-strange-loop/990044/11 "2023-09-14T01:33:30Z")
By George, you’ve got it