# Question regarding age discrimination
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [November 12, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356 "2008-11-12T15:40:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@G1llyB4tes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G1llyB4tes)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/1 "2008-11-12T15:40:05Z")
I just got layed off today. 16 years with the same company, never once a bad review, several awards for different accomplishments. Really sucks. But that’s life right?
What bothers me though, is that they provided no reason other than that there were ‘several determining factors’ none of which was performance. This is a large, multinational corporation with many thousands of employees. The guy who gave me the bad news hinted that ‘length of service’ may have been a factor??
At 53 my job prospects are not too great, realistically. But I’m also way too young to retire, not to mention still needing to put a kid though college. So to the heart of my post: I know nothing about lawsuits, and I’m not asking for specific legal advice, but in general, this feels like age discrimination to me. Am I way off base, or could I potentially have a lawsuit in my favor?
Oh, and Mods, please feel free to move if this is more of an IMHO type question. Thanks
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### Author:  [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/2 "2008-11-12T15:48:50Z")
I’m not a lawyer.
If you’re in a “right to work” state, your employer can get rid of you for no reason at all. Which, in my opinion, is a heinous law.
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### Author:  [@mazinger\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazinger_z)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/3 "2008-11-12T15:49:08Z")
IANYL, standard legal disclaimers apply…
Do you live in an at-will employment state? If so, age discrimination is significantly harder to prove. From your post, having a gut feeling really isn’t a good reason to go forward with an action. However, dealing with an attorney who specializes in this issue is better than any advice on a message board (even those boards that specifically give legal advice). I haven’t studied the age discrimination act (see [eeoc.gov](http://eeoc.gov)) in quite some time. If you want to do a little self-research, review that site and see if your particular scenario follows the law.
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### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/4 "2008-11-12T17:04:35Z")
You may want to read up on [the federal law about age discrimination](http://www.eeoc.gov/types/age.html). **Also be aware there are time deadlines when it comes to filing an age discrimination complaint/lawsuit.** If you miss a deadline you may be SOL even if you have a perfect case of age discrimination.
Make sure you read up on all the links on that page. Back in 1996, the US Supreme Court made it much easier to win an age discrimination suit.
Good luck.
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/5 "2008-11-12T17:15:41Z")
I have nothing to add on the legal aspects, but I just want to say that about 11 years ago, I was laid off at the age of 52, then spent about 6 months unemployed. However, eventually I got what in many ways is my dream job, so life doesn’t have to end in your 50s.
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### Author:  [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/6 "2008-11-12T18:04:59Z")
Perfectly innocent question here: why would you think it’s age discrimination? If you did your job perfectly and there were never any complaints, then I’m assuming you worked just as hard as the younger guys, produced the same quality/quantity of deliverables/output, and that nothing distinguishes you in any way from them. And so, who, really, age discriminates in such cases? Isn’t “age discrimination” more a factor in hiring rather than in laying off? You know, because the investment in your has already been made. You also suggest that it’s a huge company, so any financial benefit (such as reduced health insurance premiums) by targetting you due to your age wouldn’t be realized.
Was this part of a big round of layoffs? If that’s the case, then the company (since it’s big, as you indicate) has to report all of that data to the federal government for the express purpose of tracking systematic age discrimination. Our HR reports it to us directly; I don’t know what your process would be. But it lists headcount, age brackets, and percentages affected. Perhaps that would be valuable.
And really, maybe I’m just naïve, but I do mean the first paragraph sincerely and welcome a real education if I’m way off base.
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### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/7 "2008-11-12T18:30:15Z")
Now-a-days employers won’t give any reason for firing you, it leaves them open to lawsuits.
The easiest way to see is ask yourself, were other people let go? If so, were they your age? If other people were let go and they were not your age, that will go in the company’s favour.
The economy has tanked. This will also weigh against you. Even if the company had no real reason to let you go, many companies will use a bad economy to weed out their employees
In reality you have been at the company a long time. The longer you’re with a company the less productive you become and the more money you make. I’ve done research into this and unfortunately I didn’t believe it till I saw the figures. I was shocked at the amount of saving to a company by letting go long term workers.
It’s much cheaper to hire someone younger who will work longer for less pay, and do more work.
Most companies simply fire three long term workers and combine the jobs. Often they can outsource it for less than one worker costs OR I found when I was working on this project for a company, we could fire the three and replace them with one and a half employees.
My hunch is that it wasn’t age, but your length of employment. Your company realized they can hire someone new, give him MORE duties than you did and he’ll take less pay.
You’re actually lucky a lot of companies I have seen will not just let you go, what they’ll do is start writing you up so they can justify not paying you unemployment, as you’ll be let go for misconduct. And it’s easy to find reasons to write people up.
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### Author:  [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/8 "2008-11-12T18:33:14Z")
> [@G1llyB4tes](#):
>
> What bothers me though, is that they provided no reason other than that there were ‘several determining factors’ none of which was performance. This is a large, multinational corporation with many thousands of employees. The guy who gave me the bad news hinted that ‘length of service’ may have been a factor??
My first thought on the ‘length of service’ bit was that they can hire someone else to do your job for far less than they’re paying you. Years of raises and such add up.
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### Author:  [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/9 "2008-11-12T20:32:03Z")
Large financial company based out of “The Hub” in the northeast?
If so, the word I’ve gotten (I’m ok… so far… until the next round), is that it was pure cost savings. Those on the upper end of the pay range for the highest pay grades were the first ones cut. Regardless of how well they did their jobs.
The next round, again from what I hear, is more targeted towards “dead weight,” so hopefully I’m relatively ok there as well.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/10 "2008-11-12T21:14:28Z")
> [@Balthisar](#):
>
> Perfectly innocent question here: why would you think it’s age discrimination? If you did your job perfectly and there were never any complaints, then I’m assuming you worked just as hard as the younger guys, produced the same quality/quantity of deliverables/output, and that nothing distinguishes you in any way from them. And so, who, really, age discriminates in such cases? Isn’t “age discrimination” more a factor in hiring rather than in laying off? You know, because the investment in your has already been made. You also suggest that it’s a huge company, so any financial benefit (such as reduced health insurance premiums) by targetting you due to your age wouldn’t be realized.
>
> Was this part of a big round of layoffs? If that’s the case, then the company (since it’s big, as you indicate) has to report all of that data to the federal government for the express purpose of tracking systematic age discrimination. Our HR reports it to us directly; I don’t know what your process would be. But it lists headcount, age brackets, and percentages affected. Perhaps that would be valuable.
>
> And really, maybe I’m just naïve, but I do mean the first paragraph sincerely and welcome a real education if I’m way off base.
There are a lot of reasons why an employer would target older employees:
1. Belief that older employees can’t physically do the job anymore, or that they lack the ambition to put in the long hours
2. Older employees don’t project the image of a youthful, innovative, aggressive company
3. Don’t kid yourself about the chance to reduce health benefits, contributions to a retirement plan, vacation, etc.
4. Some younger managers don’t want to work with older employees
5. Older employees are believed to be less trainable and more likely to resist change
6. Older employees are believed to have already reached (or passed) their peak in terms of productivity, promotability and revenue generation. Better to concentrate on younger emplyees who still have an upside, particularly if the company has to shrink.
As someone over 50, I happen to believe all those perceptions are false, but I’ve seen them expressed over and over again.
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### Author:  [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/11 "2008-11-12T22:02:11Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> As someone over 50, I happen to believe all those perceptions are false, but I’ve seen them expressed over and over again.
Oh, I understand that if it’s documented. It’s just that the OP suggested that he’s never had a problem at performance review time. Unless, “not a problem” means “acceptable” rather than one of the upper tier rankings. If that’s the case, it _is_ performance, and not age discrimination.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/12 "2008-11-12T22:38:10Z")
> [@Balthisar](#):
>
> Oh, I understand that if it’s documented. It’s just that the OP suggested that he’s never had a problem at performance review time. Unless, “not a problem” means “acceptable” rather than one of the upper tier rankings. If that’s the case, it _is_ performance, and not age discrimination.
That would be the case if it were a mass layoff and everyone who had the same performance ratings as the OP were also laid off. However, if employees with similar performance ratings were retained, then it’s a fair question to ask why the OP was singled out.
I’m not suggesting that age (or “length of service”) is the reason for the layoff, only that it shouldn’t be dismissed without any evidence one way or the other.
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### Author:  [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/13 "2008-11-12T23:16:03Z")
Without more detail, no one here is qualified to give you advice. However, I echo **Duckster** ’s warning – under federal law, age discrimination plaintiffs may have to initiate suit within **180 days** , depending on certain factors. Therefore, if you have any inkling you may have been discriminated against (and it is illegal under federal law to fire someone over 40 on the basis of their age, with many exceptions), you need to talk to a lawyer about it _now_. You don’t need to know the answer to your questions to ask for counsel. That’s why we call it _counsel_. The lawyer will help you figure out **if** you’ve got a case, so there’s no need to make that determination yourself. You aren’t qualified.
–Cliffy
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/14 "2008-11-12T23:22:51Z")
If you file a complaint with the EEOC (note that there is a time limit) the employer will normally be required to submit a “position statement” which will almost certainly spell out the official reasons why you were chosen. You and your lawyer can then study the position statement and decide if you have a good case or not.
Are they offering you severance in exchange for a release? If so, there is a good chance that you are entitled to various disclosures from the employer. Again, discuss it with your attorney.
Bottom line: Talk to a qualified attorney. Actually, talk to a few since there are many attorneys who will charge big bucks to prosecute lousy discrimination cases.
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### Author:  [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/15 "2008-11-12T23:33:05Z")
First, IANAL, but I was in your shoes not too long ago.
Did you sign anything? If so, it could well contain something about agreeing not to take any action in return for a stated severance, and if you signed that you may well be out of luck.
If not, or even if you did, you need to present these facts to a lawyer proficient in employment law.
Anecdote != data, et al, but here’s my one experience.
I was let go from a big company. No reason given other than my position had been eliminated. I was the oldest (late 50s), as well as the only woman in the department other than one administrative assistant. One other person in the department was laid off, and he was the next-oldest person, also in his 50s. The average age of the remaining employees in the department was 30-something. I had nearly 10 years of positive and laudatory reviews. I was offered a severance package in return for signing a waiver. I took the waiver to an attorney who wrote a very carefully worded letter pointing out these facts, but making no threats or ultimatums. He then pointed out that the severance package was a bit meager, maybe even insulting, considering my many years of excellent service. The severance was subsequently increased by a considerable amount.
Make of that what you will.
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/16 "2008-11-12T23:36:03Z")
> [@Cliffy](#):
>
> Without more detail, no one here is qualified to give you advice. However, I echo **Duckster** ’s warning – under federal law, age discrimination plaintiffs may have to initiate suit within **180 days** , depending on certain factors.
Actually the rule is a bit different than that:
> [@](#):
>
> (d) Filing of charge with Commission; timeliness; conciliation, conference, and persuasion
> No civil action may be commenced by an individual under this section until 60 days after a charge alleging unlawful discrimination has been filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Such a charge shall be filed—
> (1) within 180 days after the alleged unlawful practice occurred; or
> (2) in a case to which section 633 (b) of this title applies, within 300 days after the alleged unlawful practice occurred, or within 30 days after receipt by the individual of notice of termination of proceedings under State law, whichever is earlier.
> Upon receiving such a charge, the Commission shall promptly notify all persons named in such charge as prospective defendants in the action and shall promptly seek to eliminate any alleged unlawful practice by informal methods of conciliation, conference, and persuasion.
> (e) Reliance on administrative rulings; notice of dismissal or termination; civil action after receipt of notice
> Section 259 of this title shall apply to actions under this chapter. If a charge filed with the Commission under this chapter is dismissed or the proceedings of the Commission are otherwise terminated by the Commission, the Commission shall notify the person aggrieved. A civil action may be brought under this section by a person defined in section 630 (a) of this title against the respondent named in the charge within 90 days after the date of the receipt of such notice.
[29 U.S. Code § 626 - Recordkeeping, investigation, and enforcement | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode29/usc_sec_29_00000626----000-.html)
So:
1. Before you file suit, you’ve got to file a charge with the EEOC within 180 days (in some cases this is extended to 300 days).
2. You can’t file a lawsuit until 60 days after you’ve filed your charge.
3. After the agency proceedings terminate, you’ve got 90 days to file suit.
4. Talk to a lawyer about this because it’s a bit tricky.
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/17 "2008-11-12T23:41:35Z")
> [@Gfactor](#):
>
> 1. Talk to a lawyer about this because it’s a bit tricky.
This is the only really relevant part of anything said so far. These sorts of cases are not easy. The factors they turn on are not obvious, and it’s not the sort of thing that the layman can readily grasp, even with a good tutorial in hand.
Go
See
An
Attorney. In the process, ignore most anything posted here other than well-cited information about the timelines. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/18 "2008-11-13T01:12:03Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> That would be the case if it were a mass layoff and everyone who had the same performance ratings as the OP were also laid off. However, if employees with similar performance ratings were retained, then it’s a fair question to ask why the OP was singled out.
That’s what I’m trying to understand. I’m not making accusations or trying to defend the company. Just… genuinely interested.
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### Author:  [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/19 "2008-11-13T01:18:39Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#):
>
> This is the only really relevant part of anything said so far. These sorts of cases are not easy. The factors they turn on are not obvious, and it’s not the sort of thing that the layman can readily grasp, even with a good tutorial in hand.
>
> Go
>
> See
>
> An
>
> Attorney. In the process, ignore most anything posted here other than well-cited information about the timelines. 🙂
What he said.
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### Author:  [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-age-discrimination/472356/20 "2008-11-13T15:20:58Z")
> [@Gfactor](#):
>
> Actually the rule is a bit different than that
That’s why I said “initiate,” rather than file. I expect the OP’s attorney can help him work through the deadlines; I merely wanted to warn him that the applicable limitations period is _short_.
–Cliffy
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