# Question regarding China's loaning/lending of pandas to foreign countries **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2014, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134 "2014-09-01T08:50:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/1 "2014-09-01T08:50:43Z")
Hi, I would like to know exactly how the loaning of pandas to foreign countries as part of China’s diplomacy works? Are these long-term loans? Who pays for their maintenance? The recipient country/zoo? Are the staff responsible for the pandas Chinese? I look forward to your feedback. davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/2 "2014-09-01T11:13:03Z")
Edinburgh Zoo acquired two pandas something over 2 years ago. They’re on a ten year loan, with an annual fee paid to China of £600,000. All upkeep costs, including specially trained staff, are paid for by the zoo, although China will provide experts on various aspects of their health if requested. Don’t know if that’s an extra expense though. The Edinburgh staff have all, I think, been to China for training, etc. at least once. The Director of Pandas has been several times, iirc. It’s a huge expense but the zoo is apparently pleased with the figures, even though there’s no extra charge to see them once you’ve paid your entry fee. If, as hoped, they breed then visitor numbers are expected to soar even more. Any cubs will stay at the zoo for two years and then be sent to China. In the wild this is the age they’d have begun living separately from the mother anyway. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/3 "2014-09-01T12:39:32Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > Edinburgh Zoo acquired two pandas something over 2 years ago. They’re on a ten year loan, with an annual fee paid to China of £600,000. So more like rent-a-panda, really. > [@Meurglys](#): > > The Director of Pandas… If that is a real job title, that’s really cool! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/4 "2014-09-01T13:01:48Z")
[Iain Valentine](http://www.edinburghzoo.org.uk/management/) is listed on the zoo’s site as ‘Director of Giant Panda Project and Strategic Innovations’, (which I assume is two different roles), but he’s commonly referred to by the zoo and media as the [Director of Pandas](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/11028011/Giant-panda-Tian-Tian-is-pregnant-Edinburgh-Zoo-says.html) or [Director of Giant Pandas](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28755460). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/5 "2014-09-01T13:46:20Z")
Important distinction - I mean, imagine landing the role of Director of Pandas, only to find out that the full title is Director of Red Pandas. That would be a disappointing day. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/6 "2014-09-01T13:56:31Z")
Indeed. That may be why they moved their red pandas from Edinburgh to their Highland Wildlife Park up near Inverness at roughly the same time as they acquired the giant pandas! ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/7 "2014-09-01T15:02:10Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Important distinction - I mean, imagine landing the role of Director of Pandas, only to find out that the full title is Director of Red Pandas. That would be a disappointing day. I don’t know, red pandas are pretty cute too (and, AFAIK, do not suffer from the sexual hangups that seem to afflict the “giants”). ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/8 "2014-09-01T21:39:44Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I don’t know, red pandas are pretty cute too (and, AFAIK, do not suffer from the sexual hangups that seem to afflict the “giants”). Plus, red pandas are pretty quick little critters. It’s kind of fun to watch them. I’ve just seen the ones at the zoo in Fukuoka, Japan. I found them to be more interesting–as they’re more active–than the giant pandas. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/9 "2014-09-01T22:03:47Z")
Watch out – some previous countries found out that the male pandas they got from China had been castrated. A way to ensure that nobody else could breed them and compete with China. Nowadays, they probably inject them with long-term contraceptives. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/10 "2014-09-02T11:32:34Z")
Thank you all. If anyone knows exactly how many pandas there are in zoos around the world as of 2014, I’d appreciate it. As I understand it, they are all owned by China. davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/11 "2014-09-02T11:46:15Z")
[47 giant pandas](http://www.giantpandazoo.com/panda/panda-zoos) in 18 zoos. I haven’t checked to see if this includes the recent panda cub in Vienna (?) Sadly, Edinburgh shan’t be adding to the total with a cub this year. News this weekend was that Tian Tian the female panda had aborted her fetus for as yet unknown reasons. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/12 "2014-09-02T13:01:38Z")
Thanks for the link Meurglys. Very helpful. davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-chinas-loaning-lending-of-pandas-to-foreign-countries/697134/13 "2014-09-02T14:49:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Watch out – some previous countries found out that the male pandas they got from China had been castrated. A way to ensure that nobody else could breed them and compete with China. Nowadays, they probably inject them with long-term contraceptives. Is there a cite for this? If true, it’s huge news, as similar malfeasance could potentially explain the infamously low fertility of pandas.