# Question regarding contact between Romans and the Chinese **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 30, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-contact-between-romans-and-the-chinese/696969 "2014-08-30T16:04:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-contact-between-romans-and-the-chinese/696969/1 "2014-08-30T16:04:05Z")
Hi A recent TV program I saw showed Roman emissaries in Liaoning and Beijing (not known as Beijing during the Roman empire in search of the origins of silk, meeting with the emperor and leaving without obtaining the secret to making silk. There is absolutely no evidence for this as far as I know. Does anyone have information pointing to any contact between Roman and Chinese in north-eastern China, especially the capital city? I look forward to your feedback. davidmich > **[Liaoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liaoning)** > > Liaoning /ljaʊˈnɪŋ/ (Chinese: 辽宁) is a coastal province in Northeast China that is the smallest, southernmost, and most populous province in the region. With its capital at Shenyang, it is located on the northern shore of the Yellow Sea, and is the northernmost coastal province of the People's Republic of China. > Historically a gateway between China proper and Manchuria, the modern Liaoning province was established in 1907 as Fengtian or Fengtien province and was renamed Liaoning in 1929. It was ... > **[Beijing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing)** > > Beijing (/beɪˈdʒɪŋ/ bay-JING; Chinese: 北京; pinyin: Běijīng; Mandarin pronunciation: \[pèɪ.tɕíŋ\] (listen)), alternatively romanized as Peking (/piːˈkɪŋ/ pee-KING), is the capital of the People's Republic of China. With over 21 million residents, Beijing is the world's most populous national capital city as well as China's second largest city after Shanghai. It is located in Northern China, and is governed as a municipality under the direct administration of the State Council with 1 Beijing is a... > **[Sino-Roman relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations)** > > Sino-Roman relations comprised the (primarily indirect) contacts and flows of trade goods, of information, and of occasional travellers between the Roman Empire and the Han Empire of China, as well as between the later Eastern Roman Empire and various Chinese dynasties. These empires inched progressively closer to each other in the course of the Roman expansion into the ancient Near East and of the simultaneous Han Chinese military incursions into Central Asia. Mutual awareness remained low, a... “Sino-Roman relations were essentially indirect throughout the existence of both empires. The Roman Empire and Han China progressively inched closer in the course of the Roman expansion into the Ancient Near East and simultaneous Chinese military incursions into Central Asia. However, powerful intermediate empires such as the Parthians and Kushans kept the two Eurasian flanking powers permanently apart and mutual awareness remained low and knowledge fuzzy.” ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-contact-between-romans-and-the-chinese/696969/2 "2014-08-30T19:44:55Z")
Well , for starters, the Wiki article you link to mentions embassies from Rome to China, if you scroll down: [First Roman embassy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations#First_Roman_embassy) > [@](#): > > The first group of people claiming to be an ambassadorial mission of Romans to China was recorded in CE 166 by the Hou Hanshu. The embassy came to Emperor Huan of Han China “from Andun (Chinese: 安敦; Emperor Antoninus Pius), king of Daqin (Rome)”. As Antoninus Pius died in 161, leaving the empire to his adoptive son Marcus Aurelius (Antoninus), and the envoy arrived in 166, confusion remains about who sent the mission given that both Emperors were named ‘Antoninus’. [Other Roman embassies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations#Other_Roman_embassies) > [@](#): > > The Liangshu records the arrival in CE 226 of a merchant from the Roman Empire (Da Qin) at Jiaozhi (near modern Hanoi). The Prefect of Jiaozhi sent him to Sun Quan [the Wu (kingdom) emperor], who asked him for a report on his native country and its people. > […] > An account appears about presents sent in the early 3rd century by the Roman Emperor to Cao Rui of the Kingdom of Wei (reigned 227–239) in Northern China. The presents consisted of articles of glass in a variety of colours. While several Roman Emperors ruled during this time, the embassy, if genuine, may have been sent by Severus Alexander; since his successors reigned briefly and were busy with civil wars. > […] > Another embassy from Daqin is recorded in the year 284, as bringing presents to the Chinese empire. This embassy presumably was sent by the Emperor Carus (282–283), whose short reign was occupied by war with Persia. > […] > Chinese annals record other contacts with merchants from ‘Fu-lin,’ the new name used to designate the Byzantine Empire, the continuation of the Roman Empire in the east, taking place in 643 during the reign of Constans II (641-668). Other contacts are reported taking place in 667, 701, and perhaps 719, sometimes through Central Asian intermediaries. Still other contacts are recorded by the Chinese in the 11th century. I’ll leave to other to find better sources. But, yeah, there was almost certainly some direct contact in the form of Roman embassies to China. There is, as far as I know, no mention of any Chinese going in the other direction. Nothing much seems to have ever come of it. Both parties seem weirdly uninterested in the whole thing, although that’s just my personal opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-contact-between-romans-and-the-chinese/696969/3 "2014-08-30T20:31:00Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > But, yeah, there was almost certainly some direct contact in the form of Roman embassies to China. There is, as far as I know, no mention of any Chinese going in the other direction. Nothing much seems to have ever come of it. Both parties seem weirdly uninterested in the whole thing, although that’s just my personal opinion. _Maybe_. There is an argument that Roman traders/adventurers tended to claim ambassadorial status, because a.) it enhanced their personal status and safety and b.) who is going to say otherwise? The distances were so vast and intervening polities so frequently hostile it is actually not surprising contacts were few and far between. We don’t seem to have any records of formal discourse between states recorded for both courts stemming from any one mission. Just anecdotes along the lines of “so and so arrived claiming to be an ambassador of some other state.” We can dismiss presumed Byzantine period contacts because silk was apparently acquired via smuggling in the 5th century under Justinian. And even under the Wei the capital was never Jicheng ( modern site of Beijing ), but more usually Luoyang. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-contact-between-romans-and-the-chinese/696969/4 "2014-09-01T09:15:25Z")
Thank you all. I had forgotten that Beijing didn’t become a capital until the 13th century under Mongol rule. At the time of the Roman Empire the capital was in central China (Luoyang in Henan to be exact where Emperor Huan of Han (Liu Zhi) resided. > **[Emperor Huan of Han](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Huan_of_Han)** > > Emperor Huan of Han (Chinese: 漢桓帝; pinyin: Hàn Huán Dì; Wade–Giles: Han Huan-ti; 132 – 25 January 168) was the 27th emperor of the Han dynasty after he was enthroned by the Empress Dowager and her brother Liang Ji on 1 August 146. He was a great-grandson of Emperor Zhang. He was the 11th Emperor of the Eastern Han Dynasty. > After Emperor Zhi was poisoned to death by the powerful official Liang Ji in July 146, Liang Ji persuaded his sister, the regent Empress Dowager Liang to make the 14-year-old ... > **[Liu Zhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Zhi)** > > Liu Zhi (Liu Chih in Wade–Giles) may refer to: Emperor Huan of Han(Liu Zhi) (Chinese: 漢桓帝; pinyin: Hàn Húan Dì; Wade–Giles: Han Huan-ti; 132–168) was an emperor of the Chinese Han Dynasty. He was a great-grandson of Emperor Zhang. > **[Sino-Roman relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations)** > > Sino-Roman relations comprised the (primarily indirect) contacts and flows of trade goods, of information, and of occasional travellers between the Roman Empire and the Han Empire of China, as well as between the later Eastern Roman Empire and various Chinese dynasties. These empires inched progressively closer to each other in the course of the Roman expansion into the ancient Near East and of the simultaneous Han Chinese military incursions into Central Asia. Mutual awareness remained low, a... The first group of people claiming to be an ambassadorial mission of Romans to China was recorded in CE 166 by the Hou Hanshu. The embassy came to Emperor Huan of Han China “from Andun (Chinese: 安敦; Emperor Antoninus Pius), king of Daqin (Rome)”.