# Question regarding sign stealing in baseball **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [November 18, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-sign-stealing-in-baseball/843626 "2019-11-18T20:34:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-sign-stealing-in-baseball/843626/21 "2019-11-20T21:38:00Z")
They could take away the world series title but I would be shocked if that happened. I can see a fine and losing draft picks. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-sign-stealing-in-baseball/843626/22 "2019-11-21T00:50:16Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > There are a few things coming together for why it’s you wouldn’t necessarily expect it to have blown up sooner. > > One is there is a culture of keeping some things within the clubhouse (or at least within the league). > > Another is that pretty much all teams at least suspect some level of sign stealing (some within the rules, some without) is happening and some of those teams also engage in it themselves. In 2017 there were several teams suspected of violating sign stealing rules but, with the exception of the the Red Sox and now the Astros, no direct evidence of it. It’s not an accident that signs are changed much more frequently now that technology has advanced. > > Doesn’t excuse in the slightest what the Astros did, but it does help explain why it didn’t get out sooner or why it’s seems to be blowing up bigger among fans than it is for people within the league. Being a Yankee fan, and having many friends who are Yankee fans, there isn’t a huge uproar about what Houston did. I think because we all think that it’s completely possible that using illegal technology to gain an advantage could be far more widespread than we think, so no one talks about it. Very similar to the steroid era. Anyway, everything you want to know about sign-stealing and combatting it… [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBHfswApjig) ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-sign-stealing-in-baseball/843626/23 "2019-11-21T05:08:20Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > For illustration of this, I refer the reader to the documentary _Bull Durham_, particularly the scene that accompanies the following dialogue: > > **Nuke** God, that sucker teed off on that like he knew I was gonna throw a fastball! > **Crash** He did know. > **Nuke** How? > **Crash** I told him. Not everyone knows that Kirk Gibson knew exactly what pitch was coming the night he hit the famous walk off home run against the A’s Eckersley. All season long the Dodger pitching coach had kept notes on Eckersley and saw that every time he had a batter 3 and 2, he threw an inside slider. The coach stopped Gibson on his way out of the dugout and told him to look for that pitch should the count go to 3 and 2. It did and even though Gibson was in terrible physical shape, he hit the slider into the stands. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-sign-stealing-in-baseball/843626/24 "2019-11-21T16:21:07Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Being a Yankee fan, and having many friends who are Yankee fans, there isn’t a huge uproar about what Houston did. > … I take you don’t spend much time on Reddit. This Astros cheating scandal has dominated the baseball talk there, especially from Yankees and Dodgers fans. I honestly think the Astros were doing this to an extent way beyond what anyone else was doing. They were definitely the most brazen about it. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-sign-stealing-in-baseball/843626/25 "2019-11-21T17:22:06Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > For example, in 2016 they had 1452 Ks. In 2017 that went down to 1087. That is an absurd improvement for what is basically the same core roster. [Fivethirtyeight](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/if-the-astros-stole-signs-how-much-did-it-help-them/) was running the numbers. It does appear to have helped, but they’re numbers were also vastly improved away from home in 2017 as well, though not quite **as** improved as at home. It’s possible they had an extensive system set up throughout the country, but more likely, it appears they were simply markedly better hitters in 2017 than 2016 for whatever reason. It’s worth noting that most of their roster at the time was still pretty young and just coming into it’s own. That now infamous 2014 SI story predicting the Astros winning it all in 2017 wasn’t pure fantasy. That’s about how long it might have been expected to build up the team to that level. > [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Mike Fiers told his teammates in Detroit and then in Oakland. That’s one of the weird things that struck me, though it’s unrelated. Fiers had 2 absolutely terrible outings this season against the Astros where he couldn’t even get through 2 innings. Another one where he gave up 4 homers, and 2 just decent games. But he also had his 2nd career no hitter. Baseball can be really weird. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-sign-stealing-in-baseball/843626/26 "2019-11-21T20:14:50Z")
Baseball in the past wasn’t too worried about cheating. Gaylord Perry is in the HOF and he wrote a book called “Me and the Spitter” ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-sign-stealing-in-baseball/843626/27 "2019-11-22T02:07:44Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Baseball in the past wasn’t too worried about cheating. Gaylord Perry is in the HOF and he wrote a book called “Me and the Spitter” What’s also funny is that historical methods of cheating become so ingrained in the game that they become misdemeanors; e.g. sign stealing, pine tar, spitballs, bat corking, sandpaper, amphetamines, etc. But paradigm shifts in cheating such as steroids and video technology make us question the validity of a championship. That said, if enough time passes, things are kind of forgiven; e.g. 1951 World Series [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-sign-stealing-in-baseball/843626.md?page=1)