# Question regarding the building of words in French **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 23, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677 "2018-05-23T13:24:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/1 "2018-05-23T13:24:34Z")
Hi I was trying to build the word toy monster or toy(anything). I assumed it was “le petit monstre” or “le jouet monstre” or 'le jouet monster??). I couldn’t find any of these combinations online. I hope someone can help me with the proper phrasing. I look forward to your feedback. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/2 "2018-05-23T13:49:14Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > > I was trying to build the word toy monster or toy(anything). I assumed it was “le petit monstre” or “le jouet monstre” or 'le jouet monster??). I couldn’t find any of these combinations online. I hope someone can help me with the proper phrasing. I look forward to your feedback. I should have written le monstre jouet ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/3 "2018-05-23T13:51:34Z")
You left out the preposition; the expression you were looking for appears to be _monstre de jouet_. ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/4 "2018-05-23T14:20:45Z")
The phrasing is a little odd… Basing myself on other toy descriptions I’ve seen and heard, I’d be more likely to say “un monstre minature” (a miniature monster) or “un monstre en bois” (a wooden monster) or some such phrasing. The phrasing “un X jouet” seems like a calque from English. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/5 "2018-05-23T15:05:25Z")
I tend to agree with xnylder - I don’t think French will necessarily map one-to-one onto English for this one. You might have to translate each “Toy X” to a different French phrase. Unfortunately I know just enough French to know that the OP versions, and the versions in the first reply, probably won’t do. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/6 "2018-05-23T15:08:11Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You left out the preposition; the expression you were looking for appears to be _monstre de jouet_. It doesn’t seem that consistent. What about toy radios? I’ve seen “radios jouets”. Is that wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/7 "2018-05-23T15:34:36Z")
_Un monstre jouet_ means an enormous toy (in this case _monstre_ is an adjective) _Un monstre de jouet_ means a monster of a toy (which isn’t a toy monster) A toy monster is correctly translated as _un monstre-jouet_, hyphenated please. In this case _monstre_ is a noun. I admit it’s a little difficult and awkward because of the ambiguity noun/adjective. (francophone and word freak here) ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/8 "2018-05-23T15:46:32Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#): > > _Un monstre jouet_ means an enormous toy (in this case _monstre_ is an adjective) > > _Un monstre de jouet_ means a monster of a toy (which isn’t a toy monster) > > A toy monster is correctly translated as _un monstre-jouet_, hyphenated please. In this case _monstre_ is a noun. > > I admit it’s a little difficult and awkward because of the ambiguity noun/adjective. > (francophone and word freak here) Thank you very much. Gymnopithys. I have only come across that hyphenated term once in all my searches. I didn’t register at all. Thank you all. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/9 "2018-05-23T15:55:14Z")
English turns nouns into adjectives willy-nilly. (Can we blame the Germans?) a dog house roof color could be red or green, for example. Or a railroad locomotive coupling hook or library shelf bookend, etc. I assume French does not subscribe to this technique? ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/10 "2018-05-23T16:09:16Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#): > > _Un monstre jouet_ means an enormous toy (in this case _monstre_ is an adjective) That’s not how I’d interpret it. _Un jouet monstre_, maybe; _un jouet monstrueux_, maybe too (though probably not, it sounds more like it means a toy of unspecified size that looks like a monster); but _un monstre jouet_ to me simply means a toy monster. The same way _un camion jouet_ means a toy truck. You suggest to hyphenate it, which makes sense and is probably how I’d write it, but I’m not convinced it’s necessary. **xnylder** seems to think it’s a calque from English, but I don’t see any evidence that it is. Though I don’t think it’s a form I’d easily find in a dictionary either. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/11 "2018-05-23T16:23:25Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > English turns nouns into adjectives willy-nilly. (Can we blame the Germans?) a dog house roof color could be red or green, for example. And I assume “dog house roof color” would be all one word in German? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/12 "2018-05-23T17:47:13Z")
This is called apposition, and I don’t think it came into French via English. Apposition of nouns occurs in other languages, like Latin and Greek. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/13 "2018-05-23T17:58:28Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And I assume “dog house roof color” would be all one word in German? I don’t think Dachfarbe is the same as die Farbe des Dachs ??? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/14 "2018-05-23T18:16:42Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > English turns nouns into adjectives willy-nilly. (Can we blame the Germans?) a dog house roof color could be red or green, for example. Or a railroad locomotive coupling hook or library shelf bookend, etc. I assume French does not subscribe to this technique? Careful here. It is correct to say that English turns nouns into modifiers, but not quite into adjectives. They are called noun adjuncts. To appreciate the difference consider the following sentence (which happens to be true): The BROWN building on the McGill campus is a brown BUILDING. In other words in a phrase noun-adjunct noun, the first word is (usually) stressed while in an adjective noun construction, it is the noun that normally bears the stress. Obviously, there are exceptions, such as when you contrast a brown building with a red one or the Brown building with the Brown baseball diamond. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/15 "2018-05-23T19:31:21Z")
> [@](#): > > English turns nouns into adjectives willy-nilly. (Can we blame the Germans?) a dog house roof color could be red or green, for example. Or a railroad locomotive coupling hook or library shelf bookend, etc. I assume French does not subscribe to this technique? In general, no, French does not make use of this construction, but often inserts a preposition - a snowman is an _homme de neige_, a bus station is a _station de bus_ There are a couple of odd exceptions where a hyphen is used - suicide attack is _attentat- suicide_ ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-building-of-words-in-french/814677/16 "2018-05-24T17:42:50Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > English turns nouns into adjectives willy-nilly. (Can we blame the Germans?) a dog house roof color could be red or green, for example. Or a railroad locomotive coupling hook or library shelf bookend, etc. I assume French does not subscribe to this technique? Willy-nilly or not, you should probably blame the ancient Proto-Indo-Europeans. [Sanskrit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit_compound) is full of those compound words!