# Question regarding the correct use of the term "Britain" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098 "2015-09-05T22:52:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/1 "2015-09-05T22:52:58Z")
Hi I was reading “Europe The Struggle for Supremacy 1453 to the Present” by the Irish historian Brendan Simms. On page 131 is the following sentence “The Treaty of Paris which brought the American War to an end in 1783 marked a revolution in the international state system. Britain was partitioned between France, Spain and the colonies. She was forced to recognize the thirteen colonies as independent states. Britain kept Gibraltar, but Florida and Minorca were surrendered to Spain, and France recovered Louisiana”. The author’s use of Britain in “Britain was partitioned between France, Spain and the colonies” startled me. To me Britain is the island or at most the British Isles, not the empire itself. ([Britain - definition of Britain by The Free Dictionary](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Britain)). Can the term “Britain” be used to denote “empire” as the author seems to do? I look forward to your feedback. davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/2 "2015-09-05T23:02:57Z")
I read that as Britain’s attention being divided, not the nation itself. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/3 "2015-09-05T23:14:34Z")
So “Britain was partitioned between France, Spain and the colonies” can be read as Britain’s attention being divided between France, Spain and the colonies. I didn’t think you could use the term “partition” to imply division of one’s attention. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/4 "2015-09-05T23:17:21Z")
So “partition” is being used here to mean “divided” /“not unified”. I see. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/5 "2015-09-05T23:29:55Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Britain was partitioned between France, Spain and the colonies. I’m more surprised by the use of “partitioned,” which conjures up an image of latter-day Hadrian-type walls being constructed across the island, thereby inflating the cost of bricks and mortar everywhere in the land as France, Spain and the newly minted independent Americans divide the spoils and argue about them _among_ themselves. “Between France, Spain and the colonies?” “Between” means between two entities, not three or more, no matter what the descriptivist cultists rant on about. That guy self-published in his mother’s basement or he should sue the publisher’s copy editor. Just add “Britain” to the list. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/6 "2015-09-06T00:06:35Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > I was reading “Europe The Struggle for Supremacy 1453 to the Present” by the Irish historian Brendan Simms. > On page 131 is the following sentence “The Treaty of Paris which brought the American War to an end in 1783 marked a revolution in the international state system. Britain was partitioned between France, Spain and the colonies. She was forced to recognize the thirteen colonies as independent states. Britain kept Gibraltar, but Florida and Minorca were surrendered to Spain, and France recovered Louisiana”. I have never, ever, seen it used that way. It is certainly not a normal usage. > [@Chronos](#): > > I read that as Britain’s attention being divided, not the nation itself. > [@davidmich](#): > > So “Britain was partitioned between France, Spain and the colonies” can be read as Britain’s attention being divided between France, Spain and the colonies. I didn’t think you could use the term “partition” to imply division of one’s attention. > [@davidmich](#): > > So “partition” is being used here to mean “divided” /“not unified”. I see. I don’t recall ever having seen “partitioned” used in the sense of divided attention, and that really makes little sense. I think this is just an idiosyncratic, and not very well-chosen, word use by the author. It would make sense if he had said “Britain’s North American possessions” or “British North America” was partitioned, but not Britain. “Britain” normally just refers to the island of Great Britain, or the United Kingdom, or before the Republic of Ireland separated to the British Isles. Using it to refer to colonial possessions would be unusual. ---
**Author:** ![phaemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@phaemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phaemon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/7 "2015-09-07T03:54:34Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > “Between France, Spain and the colonies?” “Between” means between two entities, not three or more, no matter what the descriptivist cultists rant on about. No, that’s just wrong. See, for example, [word choice - “between” vs. “among” - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange](http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/37636/between-vs-among) I do like Descriptivist Cultist though. Great band. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/8 "2015-09-07T04:22:27Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > IIt would make sense if he had said “Britain’s North American possessions” or “British North America” was partitioned, but not Britain. > > “Britain” normally just refers to the island of Great Britain, or the United Kingdom, or before the Republic of Ireland separated to the British Isles. Using it to refer to colonial possessions would be unusual. Britain technically refers to all British territories, and that seems to be the sense being used here. Gibraltar is always considered part of the nation of Britain, and in those days so were the North American colonies. Hence the reference to Britain retaining Gibraltar but losing her other overseas territories. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/9 "2015-09-07T04:41:30Z")
“Britain technically refers to all British territories” Blake, where can I find that definition. Can you add a link if possible? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/10 "2015-09-07T04:57:39Z")
I have never met anybody who considered Gibraltar to be part of Britain, still less the (former) North American colonies. “Britain” is used officially and popularly in the UK as a synonym for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the term “British Islands” includes the Uk and also Man, Guernsey, Jersey and Sark - but not Gibraltar. Gibraltar is a crown colony/dependent territory/overseas territory (they keep changing the name) and these have never been included in “Britain” in any usage that I know of. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/11 "2015-09-07T05:03:47Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > “Britain technically refers to all British territories” > Blake, where can I find that definition. Can you add a link if possible? The only on-line source I’ve found with that definition is [Wiktionary.](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Britain) > [@](#): > > Britain ‎(plural Britains) > > The island of Great Britain, consisting of England, Scotland and Wales. [from 10th c.] > (loosely) The United Kingdom. > (now historical) Brittany. [from 13th c.] > (now historical) The British state and its dominions and holdings; the British Empire. [from 17th c.] > (in the plural) The British Empire. [from 19th c.]  [quotations ▼] Merriam Webster includes the Commonwealth of Nations in its definition of Britain. > [@](#): > > Britain > geographical name Brit·ain \ˈbri-tən > Definition of BRITAIN > > 1. or Latin Bri·tan·nia \brə-ˈta-nyə, -nē-ə\ the island of Great Britain > 2. United Kingdom > 3. Commonwealth of Nations All other on-line dictionaries I checked, including [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com), the Oxford Dictionaries, the Free Dictionary, and the Cambridge Dictionary, include only the sense of the island of Great Britain, or the United Kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/12 "2015-09-07T05:25:22Z")
Thanks Colibri. Very helpful. Thank you all. davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/13 "2015-09-08T14:15:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > …I don’t recall ever having seen “partitioned” used in the sense of divided attention, and that really makes little sense. > > I think this is just an idiosyncratic, and not very well-chosen, word use by the author. > > It would make sense if he had said “Britain’s North American possessions” or “British North America” was partitioned, but not Britain… Agreed. Sloppy writing/editing for that book. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/14 "2015-09-08T14:22:35Z")
Even the most ardent proponent of empire would never include overseas holdings as part of “Britain.” The United Kingdom, _maybe_, but even that is questionable. Queen Victoria styled herself as Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and separately as Empress of India. > [@Colibri](#): > > Merriam Webster includes the Commonwealth of Nations in its definition of Britain. That’s just bizarre. By the time it became the Commonwealth of Nations none of those countries were British possessions anymore. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/15 "2015-09-08T14:55:38Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Agreed. Sloppy writing/editing for that book. And all the sloppier because the time he is writing about is so close to what everyone would understand by a partition - the partitions of Poland. Trading of colonial territories, even accepting the loss of the American colonies, wasn’t the same thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/16 "2015-09-08T15:03:54Z")
> [@phaemon](#): > > … > I do like Descriptivist Cultist though. Great band. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-regarding-the-correct-use-of-the-term-britain/730098/17 "2015-09-08T17:17:34Z")
Relevant video: [The Difference between the UK, Great Britain & England Explained - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10) Brian