# Question/speculation about Revenge of the Sith **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 2, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203 "2012-08-02T18:13:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/1 "2012-08-02T18:13:52Z")
Mace Windu finds out that Palpatine is Darth Sideous and goes there with some backup Jedi to arrest or kill him. If the Jedi had had ironclad proof of Palpatine’s treason they could have gone to the Senate, but apparently they didn’t. So the Jedi- whom Palpatine has _already_ made to look rebellious against Republic authority by refusing to be formally subjugated to the chain of command- set out to depose or assassinate the lawfully appointed Chancellor of the Republic. My question is, exactly what the hell did Windu think would happen afterwards? That everything would be copasetic once the Sith was dead? Logically, before Windu even set out, the Jedi should have realized they were going to be outlaws and at a minimum evacuated their headquarters on Coruscant. It seems to me that the Jedi were at this point operating on blind faith that they could do no wrong- possibly the Dark Side at work? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/2 "2012-08-02T18:18:19Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Mace Windu finds out that Palpatine is Darth Sideous and goes there with some backup Jedi to arrest or kill him. If the Jedi had had ironclad proof of Palpatine’s treason they could have gone to the Senate, but apparently they didn’t. So the Jedi- whom Palpatine has _already_ made to look rebellious against Republic authority by refusing to be formally subjugated to the chain of command- set out to depose or assassinate the lawfully appointed Chancellor of the Republic. My question is, exactly what the hell did Windu think would happen afterwards? That everything would be copasetic once the Sith was dead? Logically, before Windu even set out, the Jedi should have realized they were going to be outlaws and at a minimum evacuated their headquarters on Coruscant. It seems to me that the Jedi were at this point operating on blind faith that they could do no wrong- possibly the Dark Side at work? The jedi were fucked no matter what happened, which is the genius of ol’ Palpy. Do the public at large even know what a sith is? How could the jedi have explained this? There is also the point the jedi have no clue how far this thing goes, they needed info. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/3 "2012-08-02T18:24:28Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] My question is, exactly what the hell did Windu think would happen afterwards? [/QUOTE] > [@grude](#): > > Do the public at large even know what a sith is? How could the jedi have explained this? The plan was for Mace Windu to wave his hand and liltingly intone what’ll then get repeated right back to him: _Yes, he deserved to die, and I hope he burns in hell!_ ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/4 "2012-08-02T20:58:50Z")
The Jedi are largely out of touch and believed that even though the Republic had been militarized, that they were still the representatives of law and order. I don’t doubt that Windu believed he had the authority to arrest the Chancellor–republic law they might actually still have–but even if Palpatine hadn’t killed all the present Jedi with or without Anakin’s help, it still could have been twisted into appearing to be a Jedi power-grab. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/5 "2012-08-03T00:13:58Z")
These aren’t the plot flaws you’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/6 "2012-08-03T00:22:38Z")
Hadn’t Sideous been twisting the Force to his own ends by this point? That was why the Jedi Council couldn’t see the future, or find the Sith before that point. Since the Jedi were so tuned into the Force, that probably helped him manipulate Windu’s emotions so he wasn’t thinking clearly at this key moment. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/7 "2012-08-03T04:01:44Z")
He went there to ask Palpatine some questions, with his course of action from there to depend on just what answers he got. He was pretty sure Palpy was guilty, but was giving him the opportunity to explain how it was all just a big misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/8 "2012-08-03T06:47:23Z")
The Jedi are at this point an order which is completely out of touch. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/9 "2012-08-03T12:03:23Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Since the Jedi were so tuned into the Force, that probably helped him manipulate Windu’s emotions so he wasn’t thinking clearly at this key moment. I’m not sure I agree. If, at the key moment, Mace had uninterruptedly executed Palpatine, I figure even worst-case would’ve beaten how it went: slandered Jedi laying low _ **and** _ a still-living Palpatine orchestrating things for the next twenty years. What clear-thinking solution do you think would’ve been less bad? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/10 "2012-08-03T16:29:54Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m not sure I agree. If, at the key moment, Mace had uninterruptedly executed Palpatine, I figure even worst-case would’ve beaten how it went: slandered Jedi laying low _ **and** _ a still-living Palpatine orchestrating things for the next twenty years. What clear-thinking solution do you think would’ve been less bad? Put out a general alert for all Jedi to run and hide; then go after Palpatine. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/11 "2012-08-04T00:23:52Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Put out a general alert for all Jedi to run and hide; then go after Palpatine. Come to think of it, though, Order 66 wasn’t given until after Anakin lopped off Mace’s descending sword-hand to save Palpatine – and, as far as I can tell, couldn’t have been given if Palpatine had been beheaded. It’s interesting to wonder how things would’ve played out if Anakin had shown up late, or done nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/12 "2012-08-04T01:36:59Z")
My take on that scene was that what Palpy was telling anakin all along about the corruption in the Jedi actually had a grain of truth. The jedi were so full of themselves they didn’t even try to think of the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/13 "2012-08-09T20:28:35Z")
Arrogant and self-righteous the Jedi were. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/14 "2012-08-21T11:22:06Z")
In the novelisation Anakin (IIRC) Anakin wants to tell Amidala and Obi Wan first but is overruled by Windu. If he had done that before telling Windu, it might have been so very different. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/15 "2012-08-21T12:26:12Z")
Here is a new question to ponder: Is Palpatine beaten legit by Mace? Or was that just an act to manipulate Anakin? My view is that it was an act, he knew Anakin was approaching and wanted to goad him into acting against Mace by playing the feeble old man(his favorite tactic) further cementing Anakin’s downward spiral. I don’t know that the film makes this clear though. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-speculation-about-revenge-of-the-sith/630203/16 "2012-08-21T12:43:32Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Here is a new question to ponder: > > Is Palpatine beaten legit by Mace? Or was that just an act to manipulate Anakin? > > My view is that it was an act, he knew Anakin was approaching and wanted to goad him into acting against Mace by playing the feeble old man(his favorite tactic) further cementing Anakin’s downward spiral. I don’t know that the film makes this clear though. I think it was an act, right up till he gets unexpectedly divested of his light sabre. Then he is in trouble.