# Question to Atheists. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 22, 2000, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116 "2000-04-22T21:27:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/1 "2000-04-22T21:27:00Z")
I have been a devout Baptist my entire life and have, therefore, considered the Bible as my ultimate authority. I look to it for my morals, perspectives, and priorities, and I know that without it I’d be totally lost. ## So, how do atheists prioritize their lives? Who, what, how decides their ultimate authority? And are your morals just relative? BTW, I’m not trying to ‘Christianize’ you…just wondering. **ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?** Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/2 "2000-04-22T21:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by jenkinsfan: > Who, what, how decides their ultimate authority? And are your morals just relative? I have two questions about your question: 1. What is the object of the term “their”? 2. What do you mean by relative morals? ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/3 "2000-04-22T21:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Nen: > \*\* I have two questions about your question: > > 1. What is the object of the term “their”? > > 2. What do you mean by relative morals?\*\* Answers: 1)Atheists ## 2)Morals that change per situation based on circumstances(i.e. abortion is wrong except in the case of rape, health risk, etc.) **ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?** Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound. ---
**Author:** ![hardcore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@hardcore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardcore)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/4 "2000-04-22T21:49:00Z")
jenkinsfan, I suggest you do a little research. Try [http://hem.passagen.se/nicb/atheism.htm](http://hem.passagen.se/nicb/atheism.htm) and pay particular attention to the section titled **Morality and Ethics: Are They Possible without a God?** ---
**Author:** ![meara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@meara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meara)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/5 "2000-04-22T21:56:00Z")
Well… I’m an agnostic, not an atheist, but I’ve never had trouble forming my own morals and priorities without the aid of a bible. I treat others the way I would like to be treated and generally try to pursue goals that:[ul][li]make me happy[/li][li]make others happy[/li][li]contribute something of lasting worth to society[/ul][/li] Aside from the God/Jesus stuff, what morals, perspectives and priorities do _you_ find in the Christian bible that transcend common sense and goodwill? ---
**Author:** ![Gilligan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Gilligan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gilligan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/6 "2000-04-22T21:58:00Z")
Actually, there have been a number of threads right here in Great Debates on this topic, just look back over the past few months. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/7 "2000-04-22T21:58:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by hardcore: > **jenkinsfan, I suggest you do a little research. Try [http://hem.passagen.se/nicb/atheism.htm](http://hem.passagen.se/nicb/atheism.htm) and pay particular attention to the section titled Morality and Ethics: Are They Possible without a God?** ## Thank you for the link and quick response. Excuse the ignorance, but is this guy saying in his personal values statement that he believes we should all decide what’s best for us? I agree that we should use our conscience but doesn’t the same human race that destroys itself with pollution, nuclear arms, and biological weapons need a much **bigger** Authority than its conscience? **ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?** Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/8 "2000-04-22T22:02:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by meara: > \*\* > Aside from the God/Jesus stuff, what morals, perspectives and priorities do _you_ find in the Christian bible that transcend common sense and goodwill?\*\* ## None…Christian morals aren’t contrary to goodwill and common sense. But then again, separating “Christian morals” from God/Jesus stuff destroys them doesn’t it? **ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?** Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/9 "2000-04-22T22:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by jenkinsfan: > **I agree that we should use our conscience but doesn’t the same human race that destroys itself with pollution, nuclear arms, and biological weapons need a much _bigger_ Authority than its conscience?** While I agree that we’ve done some pretty lousy things as a species, it’s also worth noting that a fairly large number of people associated with the problems you list consider themselves to be theists. A higher authority is no better than relative conscience if you don’t listen. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/10 "2000-04-22T22:04:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Gilligan: > **Actually, there have been a number of threads right here in Great Debates on this topic, just look back over the past few months.** Sorry, as you can guess by my profile I’m a newbee. * * * **ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?** Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/11 "2000-04-22T22:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by jenkinsfan: > I agree that we should use our conscience but doesn’t the same human race that destroys itself with pollution, nuclear arms, and biological weapons need a much **bigger** Authority than its conscience? No, certain individuals just need to be bitch-slapped. Seriously, in response to your previous questions, I guess I don’t understand what you mean by the determination of an atheist’s ultimate authority. Please elaborate further. Prioritization is based on importance. Importance is based on necessity and benefit. Morals can be relative but needn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/12 "2000-04-22T22:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by jenkinsfan: > \*\* But then again, separating “Christian morals” from God/Jesus stuff destroys them doesn’t it? > \*\* Not neccesarily. I consider myself to be an agnostic most of the time, and an atheist the rest, however in the course of my reading and studying “right vs. wrong” I have found the Bible (specifically the Gospels) to be very helpful in setting my own moral compass. Regardless of my beliefs about a higher power, I believe in the wisdom that Jesus’ teachings contain. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/13 "2000-04-22T22:12:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by JDeMobray: > \*\* > > A higher authority is no better than relative conscience if you don’t listen. > > \*\* I agree. For the sake of illustration, though, consider the following… _I am an atheist. I believe that we all evolved from single cell creatures without supernatural intervention. I believe that I have all the answers inside me… **However** , I can’t explain why so many people around me haven’t figured out God doesn’t exist even after we’ve had several billions of years without any sign of Him. I also struggle to explain why mankind hasn’t learned from its mistakes considering the incredible time period it’s had to do so. And if I’m wrong about all of this then I guess I’ll find out when I die._ Help me out; is that the logic of an atheist? Answers please. * * * **ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?** Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/14 "2000-04-22T22:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Nen: > \*\* No, certain individuals just need to be \*\*\*\*\*-slapped. > > Seriously, in response to your previous questions, I guess I don’t understand what you mean by the determination of an atheist’s ultimate authority. Please elaborate further. > \*\* Sir, I kindly ask you not to curse, please. I’m not trying to impose my morals on you, but I wish you would respect my request. Thank you. As for the question for my original post, I was asking how do atheists decide what is right and what is wrong. Is more elaboration needed? * * * **ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?** Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound. ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/15 "2000-04-22T22:17:00Z")
Obviously there is no uniform moral code among atheists. It is certainly true that some atheists are sociopathic or desperately evil (as are some theists of every stripe) and have no moral code beyond immediate self-gratification. However many of us atheists, myself included, subscribe to the philosophy of [Secular Humanism](http://www.secularhumanism.org/) and its moral/ethical system as originally described in the [Humanist Manifesto I\* (1933) and [url=http://www.infidels.org/org/aha/documents/manifesto2.html]Humanist Manifesto II](http://www.infidels.org/org/aha/documents/manifesto1.html). * * * Dr. Crane! Your glockenspiel has come to life! ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/16 "2000-04-22T22:19:00Z")
[Secular Humanism](http://www.secularhumanism.org/) [Humanist Manifesto I](http://www.infidels.org/org/aha/documents/manifesto1.html) (1933) [Humanist Manifesto II.](http://www.infidels.org/org/aha/documents/manifesto2.html) (1973} ---
**Author:** ![hardcore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@hardcore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardcore)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/17 "2000-04-22T22:20:00Z")
> [@](#): > > But I do not give my views on the criteria against which I think public policy should be judged He makes this point several times in the essay. You are mistakenly extrapolating his _personal_ values to public issues. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/18 "2000-04-22T22:22:00Z")
Well, it looks like meara, hardcore, SingleDad and myself have all given you a little insight into our own personal ways of prioritizing our lives. I would assume that there are almost as many variations on the basic concepts of athiesm and agnosticism as there are on theism. Atheists, I’ve found, are by no means a single collective of thought any more than a mixed group of Catholics, Baptists, Hindus, and Wiccans might be. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/19 "2000-04-22T22:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by hardcore: > \*\* He makes this point several times in the essay. You are mistakenly extrapolating his _personal_ values to public issues.\*\* So…Is he saying that his personal values aren’t good enought to govern the rest of society? * * * **ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?** Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2000, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116/20 "2000-04-22T22:27:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by JDeMobray: > \*\*Well, it looks like meara, hardcore, SingleDad and myself have all given you a little insight into our own personal ways of prioritizing our lives. > \*\* Yes, you have given me very courteous responses and I thank you for it. BTW, if yer curious about what I happen to believe then you can pick up the Bible. Thanx. * * * **ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NON SMOKING?** Itchy the flea-filled beagle hound. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-to-atheists/18116.md?page=2)