# Question: Without looking him up, do you know who this person is? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667 "2010-06-18T13:00:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/61 "2010-06-18T20:18:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Lord Chesterfield is famous in the exact same sense that George Santayana and Lord Acton are famous. > > Practically EVERY educated person can tell you that that Santayana wrote “Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it,” or something like that, but almost nobody can tell you much more about him than that. > > If I mentioned Lord Acton to a reasonably well educated person, I’d expect that person to say, “Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” But I wouldn’t expect him to know anything else about Lord Acton. > > If I mentioned Lord Chesterfield to the decently educated people I know, most would probably vaguely remember some variation on his famous remarks about sex. Most won’t get it exactly right, but most would probably remember that he told his son something like “The pleasure is brief, the cost outrageous, and the position ridiculous.” > > I wouldn’t expect most people to know much more about Lord Chesterfield than that (I certainly don’t!). To be perfectly honest, not only didn’t I recognize Chesterfield’s name to the degree of associating him with any quotes (or anything else, for that matter), I didn’t know that Lord Acton was responsible for “Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely”. I knew the quote, but not who said it. Nor do I know a single thing about Lord Acton. For the longest time I didn’t know who said “Those who cannot remember history…”, but I learned a few years ago that it was George Santayana. And, like you, I don’t know anything else about him, except that his name is pronounced almost exactly like that of Giorgio de Santillana, co-author of **Hamlet’s Mill**. And every now and then I find myself wondering why a writer about archaeoastronomy should expound on historical memory. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/62 "2010-06-18T20:45:58Z")
Nope, haven’t heard of him beyond the superficial and the cigarettes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/63 "2010-06-18T20:53:55Z")
I’ve heard the name, but know nothing about him. Some of the quotes are familiar, but I wouldn’t have associated them with him. I regard myself as pretty widely read and aware of many historical and literary individuals who would not be recognized by the average reader. So your author is off base if he considers Chesterfield and his quotes to be a matter of common knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/64 "2010-06-18T20:59:10Z")
Who the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/65 "2010-06-18T21:02:26Z")
Never heard of him, but if I read someone quoting him I would assume he’s important, since, you know, he’s a Lord and all. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/66 "2010-06-19T02:53:53Z")
The name did not ring a bell, nor the quotes, but I do vaguely remember hearing about the Lord somebody or other who wrote all these letters of advice to his son that were published and are supposed to be good. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/67 "2010-06-19T03:10:12Z")
Due to the OP’s disqualifications, my answer must be “no.” ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/68 "2010-06-19T03:21:10Z")
Having read the first spoiler box and no further – Brit famous for a series of letters he wrote to his son with advice on how to behave in polite society. Time frame I’m a little wonky on – I think Regency period, roughly, but I could be off 50 years in either direction. ETA: Seriously off on the time frame – shoulda gone with my first impulse, which was to say “18th century.” ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/69 "2010-06-19T03:45:28Z")
The problem with famous quotes is they’re attributed willy nilly to anyone famous for being witty. Ever heard this old joke: Woman–If I was your wife, I’d give you poison. Man–If I was your husband, I’d take it. I’ve seen this in at least two books–once attributed to Winston Churchill, once to Dizzy Dean! What kind of work is your friend writing? Unless he’s writing a scholarly work, attributing a Latin quotation to an obscure writer is going to make the narrator or character seem he’s trying too hard to impress his audience. For a non-scholarly audience he might try to attribute it (in English) to a more well known figure. Even if it’s wrong, how much of the audience will know for sure? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/70 "2010-06-19T03:49:14Z")
Good grief - am I the only Doper who knows about him? I’ve come to expect that if anyone knows trivia, it’s this gang. I looked into the first spoiler box, said to myself, “oh yes, Chesterfield.” Things that came to mind without googling: There’s the letters to his son, of course, who was illegitimate. There was also his offer of patronage to Johnson, which didn’t work out so well. And, there’s Johnson’s riposte about the letters to his son: “They teach the morals of a whore, and the manners of a dancing master.” Another thing I knew was that Chesterfield was responsible for introducing the [Calendar Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_(New_Style)_Act_1750), which adopted the Gregorian Calendar in Britain and its Empire. Looking into the second spoiler box, I only recognized the longer paragraph, about not laughing. Didn’t recognize the three epigrams. On further review of the comments - at least **APB** knows of him, not surprisingly. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/71 "2010-06-19T03:55:16Z")
Heard of him, and I associate him mainly with the letters to his son. I had no idea about the connection with calendars. Busy chap! ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/72 "2010-06-19T04:09:06Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > Woman–If I was your wife, I’d give you poison. > Man–If I was your husband, I’d take it. My apologies, but after 6 years of Latin, I can’t let this go. It should be were. “If I were your wife…” “If I were your husband…” is the proper form, as they are using the subjunctive, indicating that they are referring to a hypothetical situation and not actual reality as the indicative would expose. Also, I heard that attributed to Churchill too. Who was it really? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/73 "2010-06-19T06:19:14Z")
Why’s he got a bug in his ass about _laughing_? I’ll bet he was a hoot at parties. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/74 "2010-06-19T07:04:01Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > My apologies, but after 6 years of Latin, I can’t let this go. > > It should be were. “If I were your wife…” “If I were your husband…” is the proper form, as they are using the subjunctive, indicating that they are referring to a hypothetical situation and not actual reality as the indicative would expose. > > Also, I heard that attributed to Churchill too. Who was it really? I had an English major tell me I was wrong about that, that “was” had actually supplanted were for use in the subjunctive, at least, in American English. But I’m okay with “were.” The one I don’t like is the present subjunctive, which sounds overly formal to my ears. I don’t know of anyone that uses it, and I have only read it in formal contexts. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/75 "2010-06-19T07:13:16Z")
Never heard of him. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/76 "2010-06-19T07:33:39Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > My apologies, but after 6 years of Latin, I can’t let this go. Why would 6 years of latin have anything to do with the conjugation of the subjunctive in english? Never heard of chesterfield. The quotes of his that I recognize are the wellworn saws. I wouldn’t be able to tell you thing one about him. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/77 "2010-06-19T15:16:32Z")
I had very vaguely heard of him, but the excerpt above using his real name, Phillip Stanhope, is much more familiar to me than his title. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > The writer isn’t by any means obligated to identify his source beyond giving the name, but when he hammers on it and apparently expects the audience to know that person, and see the quotes as well-known old friends, it’s worth pointing out that they are, in fact, total strangers, and they ought to be properly introduced. I love that phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/78 "2010-06-19T15:41:49Z")
I’m actually pretty familiar with him because a passage from one of his letters was on the AP exam in 2007 or so. I liked it enough that I skimmed a bunch of his letters and found a different one to use with my students. That said, while I hope some of my students remember the passage, I doubt any of them could remember his name, and that’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/79 "2010-06-19T16:00:20Z")
Never heard of him. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667/80 "2010-06-19T16:13:35Z")
The name rings a bell, but I know nothing of substance about him, unfamiliar with those quotes or any of his writings. eta: What was the context of the writing you were critiquing? If it was academic writing of a specific area and you expect your audience to also be academics of that specific area, I don’t think it’s so terrible to assume they know who an otherwise obscure person might be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-without-looking-him-up-do-you-know-who-this-person-is/543667.md?page=5)