# Questions about football scouting(quarterbacks) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 3, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669 "2018-09-03T03:33:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/21 "2018-09-05T19:16:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve presented this theory before: Some quarterbacks (and other players) are highly successful at the college level because they have a skill for finding a weak spot in the opposing team’s play and exploiting it. > > Then they get to the pro level. And on their first play, they line up, take the ball, look around for the weak spot - and don’t find it. At the professional level, every player on the field is an expert. Even the guys who are third string back-ups are incredibly skilled. > > If your record was based on being better than the other guys on the field, you’re not going to succeed in the NFL. You have to be able to play against people who are as good at their job as you are at yours. Outstanding thinking there. Hadn’t thought of that before. This is actually a known thing in baseball, where a lot of minor league hitters just MURDER those 85 mph fastballs and mediocre breaking stuff but when they get to the majors where most pitches are 95mph or just filthy breaking stuff, they see a lot fewer mistakes to feast on. So yeah, a QB failing to find weak spots could definitely struggle if that’s what he’s been reliant on. I guess that could be applicable to any player in the NFL other than special teams players. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/22 "2018-09-05T19:42:21Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I also think the pro quarterback position is more about the mental capability and less about the sheer athleticism of the player, so more physically gifted and less mentally gifted players may do very well in college (think Vince Young), but not well in the pros, and vice-versa. Another factor that I don’t see being discussed here for QBs is “Leadership”. It’s one thing for a college QB to act as a leader to a bunch of other 19 year old kids. It’s quite another to step into the NFL and act as a leader to grown men, some who may be 10-15 years older. Some of the mystery of why a seeming good QB doesn’t land a starter spot, or is a bust after 2 seasons could be this intangible that doesn’t always show up in the stats. It definitely shows up in the locker room and on the practice field where the coaches and GMs are evaluating players. ---
**Author:** ![Shut\_Up\_Lutz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Shut\_Up\_Lutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shut_Up_Lutz)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/23 "2018-09-05T19:44:48Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Interesting story about Locker, thank you for sharing it! > > Another factor, which showed up with Locker, as well as (probably) JaMarcus Russell, was that, once they got to the NFL, they realized that they weren’t really terribly interested in playing pro football. Locker walked away from the game explicitly due to this; Russell still has, as far as I can tell, never officially retired, but his lack of interest in the game, as well as his lack of willingness to put in the work needed, were fairly widely known, and were likely big factors that kept anyone from signing him after he left the Raiders. > > That lack of interest in the game is another intangible that scouts may not pick up on, or (in the case of Russell) might turn a blind eye to, due to falling in love with the guy’s physical talents. And then you have Tom Brady, who’s combine workout was one of the worst in NFL history, the pics of him with his shirt off made him the laughingstock of the combine and the draft. And there was some truth to the laughing, he didn’t have a good combine and he hadn’t spent much time in the weight room, but very little if any time in the weight room. **But he always won** when he was at Michigan, or came damn close. And it turned out he was motivated by notes on him by the coaches, which he happened to see during his rookie season, the biggest mark against him was that he needed to do everything faster. And being drafted behind a bunch of other QB’s was also motivating. There’s a good documentary about the Brady 6 (the Qb’s who were drafted ahead of him and there’s an especially hilarious part where Bill Walsh is literally jizzing his pants over the fact that he and the 49ers drafted Hofstra’s Giovanni Carmazzi, with Walsh going on and on, “Well we managed to swoop in and grab him we had heard at least 10 other teams were going to pick him so we were lucky to grab him.” Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/24 "2018-09-05T19:50:22Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Another factor that I don’t see being discussed here for QBs is “Leadership”. It’s one thing for a college QB to act as a leader to a bunch of other 19 year old kids. It’s quite another to step into the NFL and act as a leader to grown men, some who may be 10-15 years older. Some of the mystery of why a seeming good QB doesn’t land a starter spot, or is a bust after 2 seasons could be this intangible that doesn’t always show up in the stats. It definitely shows up in the locker room and on the practice field where the coaches and GMs are evaluating players. Tebow scored off the charts on intangibles. I still maintain that the only reason he’s not an NFL QB is that Josh McDaniel was the only guy willing to build his offense around Tebow’s abilities. Most coaches get a QB to fit their system, they don’t want to fit their system around a QB. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/25 "2018-09-05T21:12:17Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Pretty simple, I think. Seattle was desperate for a quarterback after [dumping Matt Hasselbeck in a contract dispute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Hasselbeck#Departure_from_Seattle) before the 2011 season, and seeing their anointed replacement for him, Tavaris Jackson, not produce as well as hoped. > > They signed Flynn before the 2012 draft (i.e., before obtaining Wilson), so at that point, their QB cupboard was pretty bare. And, yes, paying big money for Flynn as a starter was probably a reach, but I imagine that they hoped that four years as a Packer, and learning from Rodgers, made Flynn better than the typical backup. (And, yes, Flynn looked great in that Lions game, too. 🙂 ) > > Also, there was, through the ‘90s and into the 2000s, a history of Packers’ backups going to other teams and having at least some success as starters, including Mark Brunell, Aaron Brooks, and Ty Detmer, as well as Hasselbeck. Don’t forget that after a few years in Seattle he actually came BACK to Green Bay and was forced to play in a few games and looked pretty good in those games. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/26 "2018-09-05T21:30:08Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Don’t forget that after a few years in Seattle he actually came BACK to Green Bay and was forced to play in a few games and looked pretty good in those games. Definitely, though Flynn was only in Seattle for one season (2012). In 2013, the Seahawks traded him to the Raiders, where he played a bit, then got cut, picked up briefly by Buffalo, and cut again. Meanwhile, in Green Bay in 2013, Rodgers suffered a collarbone break for the first time (he had another one last year). His backup, Seneca Wallace, suffered a season-ending injury in his first start, and the third-string QB, Scott Tolzien, was ineffective in several starts. After Flynn was cut by Buffalo, the Packers brought him back, to act as Tolzien’s backup, but he soon became the starter. Flynn rallied the Packers to a tie when he was brought into replace Tolzien mid-game, and went 2-2 as a starter that year. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/27 "2018-09-06T15:43:21Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Also, there was, through the ‘90s and into the 2000s, a history of Packers’ backups going to other teams and having at least some success as starters, including Mark Brunell, Aaron Brooks, and Ty Detmer, as well as Hasselbeck. Um, just saying, if you want an example of a Packers backup QB named Aaron\* going on to success as a starter, Aaron Brooks might not be your place to start… - pronounced “A.A. Ron” of course ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/28 "2018-09-06T15:59:50Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Um, just saying, if you want an example of a Packers backup QB named Aaron\* going on to success as a starter, Aaron Brooks might not be your place to start… > > - pronounced “A.A. Ron” of course 😃 Fair point that Rodgers has had a far better career as a starter than Brooks, but the point I was making was that the Packers had sent a series of their backup quarterbacks on to **other teams** , where they became starters. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/29 "2018-09-06T23:47:23Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Another factor, which showed up with Locker, as well as (probably) JaMarcus Russell, was that, once they got to the NFL, they realized that they weren’t really terribly interested in playing pro football. I’m not denying it happens, but WHY does it happen? The QB position is glamorous, but it is incredibly punishing, as almost all QBs take several hard hits a game from the blind side, or when completely defenseless. How could somebody play four years of college ball if he doesn’t like football? And why would somebody play college ball for free, when it is taking valuable time away from his studies, and then not play for millions of dollars, when he can devote full time to it? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/30 "2018-09-07T00:51:18Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I’m not denying it happens, but WHY does it happen? The QB position is glamorous, but it is incredibly punishing, as almost all QBs take several hard hits a game from the blind side, or when completely defenseless. How could somebody play four years of college ball if he doesn’t like football? And why would somebody play college ball for free, when it is taking valuable time away from his studies, and then not play for millions of dollars, when he can devote full time to it? I think part of it is exactly the fact that it _does_ become a full-time job, and probably an order of magnitude more intense, and more complex, of a job than it is in college ball. And, the large amount of money involved probably also adds to the pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/31 "2018-09-07T15:55:53Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I think part of it is exactly the fact that it _does_ become a full-time job, and probably an order of magnitude more intense, and more complex, of a job than it is in college ball. > > And, the large amount of money involved probably also adds to the pressure. Manziel said that when he got into the NFL he was completely unprepared for the amount of work and pressure involved in comparison to college play. I guess you can party and have fun in college and get by on talent on the field. As a professional even the best player needs to put in a ton of work. The idea that it becomes a job seems to be very apt. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/32 "2018-09-07T17:36:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That surprises me because I always assumed Rodgers was great because of his teammates. It’s the other way around. And offense isn’t Green Bay’s problem, it’s their defense. Their overall defensive rank in 2010, when they won the SB: 5th. Since then? 32nd, 11th, 15th, 15th, 22nd, 22nd. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669/33 "2018-09-07T19:14:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I guess you can party and have fun in college and get by on talent on the field. Based on a lot of stories I’ve read over the years, I think that there’s more than a little truth to that. In addition, as many stories (and NCAA investigations have shown), if you’re a talented player at a football school, like Manziel was, the school does a lot to make your life easier, and it’s possible to “go to college” without working nearly as hard at the school end of things as your non-football-playing classmates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-football-scouting-quarterbacks/820669.md?page=1)