# Questions about Hitler and Nazi Germany's attempted extermination of Europe's Jews **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168 "2013-09-18T19:02:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/341 "2013-09-21T03:48:42Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > it was a report from two unidentified Jews (their names were revealed years later, one was R. Vrba) who had escaped from Auschwitz, But this is what I’m asking. Who set up Auschwitz, Sobibor, Treblinka, etc.? Why were they set up? If the Nazis didn’t have any problems with Jews, homosexuals, etc., why were they sent to camps? Even if they all did die of typhus (which they didn’t, but for the sake of this conversation…), you don’t think it was a monstrous thing to do, to remove these people from their homes against their will and send them to a place where living conditions were so bad that repeated epidemics were able to wipe out thousands upon thousands of people? You keep saying that deaths in camps were due to typhus, which avoids the real issue: why were they in the camps to begin with? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/342 "2013-09-21T04:05:15Z")
I’m astonished that people are still bothering with this guy. I have my settings to where I’m automatically Subscribed to any thread I post in, but I’m Unsubscribing to this pile of shit thread. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/343 "2013-09-21T04:07:59Z")
> [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > You keep saying that deaths in camps were due to typhus, which avoids the real issue: why were they in the camps to begin with? The Jews worked so hard . . . The Nazis thought they needed a vacation, in a nice camp in the countryside. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/344 "2013-09-21T04:30:17Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > It doesn’t hold back the testimony of a single witness. > > But since it is broadcast by the USHMM it implicates the whole holocaust establishment in the lie, the USHMM is lying, Spielberg is lying, the ‘scholars’ who vetted Speilberg’s movie are lying. > > Now, I’ll make the same suggestion to you as I made to the trombone player, find a better Jewish witness, not someone on trial for their life, and let’s examine their testimony. If there are 1000s you should have no trouble finding one credible Jewish witness. There are 2 witnesses in this fucking thread that detailed their family history - you choose to ignore it and even go so far as to imply that the posters great grandmother might be lying about it. This forum doesn’t allow the type of response you truly deserve - you are not listening - you are not debating - you are not discussing - your claim to only want to discover the ‘truth’ is nothing and you have yet to bring up one single bit of evidence that has not been soundly debunked. The only good thing about this thread is the reasoned responses to your bullshit - ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/345 "2013-09-21T04:46:38Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > But since it is broadcast by the USHMM . . . Which stands for? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/346 "2013-09-21T04:48:34Z")
> [@simster](#): > > This forum doesn’t allow the type of response you truly deserve . . . But [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=702644) does. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/347 "2013-09-21T05:01:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=702644) does. Rigth - but thats what he wants (as stated earlier in the thread - it makes him the ‘winner’ because thats the best his opponents can do) and its not worth the time it would take to write it up - “find better jewish wittnesses”, " you should have no trouble finding one credible jewish witness" - fuckity fuck indeed - that colors him for what his true motivations and mindset are right there. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/348 "2013-09-21T05:19:32Z")
Gack - how much time have you physically spent in Germany, Poland or any other country where these actions took place? Have you personally reviewed or visited any of the physical archives, museums or sites ? Have you made any reqests to the official sources of information for anything at all? What is your background in anthropology and research? what is your school of study? If you have done none of these things - then you really have nothing ‘new’ to offer and never will. What makes you so sure that the crap you’ve been reading (soundly debunked in this thread alone) has any basis in reality? Have you reconsidered any of your ‘facts’ since every single thing you have posted has been shown to be false or misleading? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/349 "2013-09-21T05:32:47Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Which is entirely irrelevant to the discussion of the reality of the Nazi atrocities. That some person running a museum (or some ill-trained volunteer guide in a museum) happens to get history wrong is a pretty common occurrence. In fact, historical sites that have been treated as museums have only begun getting more serious about the history they present in the last few decades and many have not caught up. (Plimouth Plantation had to tear down all the original log cabins, replacing them with wattle houses, only after they did the research to discover that the lof cabin had not been introduced to North America by 1620.) > > Pointing to an error in some guide’s talk as evidence that the Holocaust did not occur is, frankly, stupid. I grew up in Newport RI. Don’t even mention the Viking Monument. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/350 "2013-09-21T05:55:02Z")
Gack- You’ve almost got your whole story on the table. Please continue from where you were about the two anonymous jews, the three men who planted this evidence in the press, and how it leads back to 1900. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/351 "2013-09-21T06:18:21Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > I knew, even as a kid when I saw the photos in a movie theater, that something was amiss. Why would gassing victims be emaciated? This thread is getting weirder and weirder. First you implied a lot of people got their information about the Holocaust from Oprah, then you suggested people took a WAG by Simon Wiesenthal at face value without doing supporting research, and now you’re saying it never occurred to you that people who spent years in ghettos and wound up in death camps weren’t well fed. In context of the war and the way the Nazis viewed their prisoners it would have been bizarre if they were properly fed. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/352 "2013-09-21T06:47:36Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Now, on to your argument, you are obviously using the Holocaust Denier argument that most of the deaths in the extermination and concentration camps were due to disease. Answer me this, then: if a government imprisons its own citizens, men and women who have done nothing wrong, committed no crimes, harmed no one, and then stuffs those unjustly imprisoned people into overcrowded, unsanitary conditions without proper medical oversight, such that 10’s of thousands of human beings die of disease… how is that not murder on the part of the ruling regime? > > (We can debate numbers later, let’s just agree that we’re discussing some sort of moral framework and not just an apologia for anti-Semitism) Still no answer to that, eh? I see a few other people have posted the question… I wonder why Gack hasn’t given a decent answer to that. Truly, it’s a mystery for the ages. And as long as I’m at it, another bit that Gack will ignore and an, ahem, ‘reliable Jewish witness’: > [@What qualifies someone as a Holocaust survivor?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-qualifies-someone-as-a-holocaust-survivor/560605/50): > > my maternal grandmother, who saw the Nazis break into her home and drag her father and brother out into the night, came home several days later to find that her mother had hanged herself, and then managed to escape (eventually) to the United States But I’m sure that bitch, who devoted her life to the profession of nursing until the events of her childhood finally shattered her mind years later… that bitch was probably lying. Fucking cunt that she was. Fucking Jewish cunt, I should say. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/353 "2013-09-21T08:20:11Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > You’re thinking of [Scopie’s Law](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Whale.to#Scopie.27s_Law) Yes, thank you. And Gack is clearly in violation. Can we end this stupidity? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/354 "2013-09-21T08:32:17Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yes, thank you. And Gack is clearly in violation. Can we end this stupidity? No! I wanna hear about the 3-person conspiracy who somehow controlled all the photos, documents, and post-war court trials to lead the whole world into believing 6 million of anything was gassed! Didn’t ya hear? It started around 1900. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/355 "2013-09-21T10:24:34Z")
Hey Gack. You still haven’t answered my main question: _Why?_ Let’s suppose your \< cough \> ‘theories’ are correct and there’s a massive hoax about the Holocaust–that the fun-loving Nazis really just wanted to send Jews and others to holiday camps where they’d be counted by those wacky records-loving Nazis and given showers many times a day. Let’s say, for just a second, that you’re right (however stupid the theory is) Who benefits from making those groovy Nazis into villains? What is/was the motive? What’s the payoff for the biggest cover-up in human history? What’s the _point_ of this “Holohoax” (to use the term you’re tip-toeing around)? And for that matter, who’s behind it? “International bankers”? The Gnomes of Zurich? Who benefits from this? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/356 "2013-09-21T10:34:49Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > So, the Auschwitz state museum and by implication the entire holocaust establishment has been systematically lying about the only gas chamber for fifty years. They continued right up until David Cole revealed the lies to the world. > > So, that raises the obvious question, what else are they lying about? > [@Gack](#): > > That is where we started, they are lying about the photos presented as evidence of the holocaust. I knew, even as a kid when I saw the photos in a movie theater, that something was amiss. Why would gassing victims be emaciated? It was a sort of cognitive dissonance, but I never thought anything more about it. Now I know why they were emaciated, because they died at the end of the war of tyhpus, they were not gassed during the war, and they weren’t all Jews. Now you are just being silly. There is no “implication” that history is made false by the actions of one museum. As noted, based on that claim, no Separatists landed near what is now the city of Plymouth, MA in 1620 and the Battle of Gettysburg, (heck,maybe the whole Civil War), never happened. The museums at historical sites are generally not run by historians. It has been fairly recently that they even began to pay serious attention to historians. Such places frequently get things wrong. As for emaciation, the Nazis could not dispose of the bodies fast enough to process all the people who arrived on every train, so they were divided up between slave labor and those to be murdered. The ones who were murdered, immediately, went to the gas chambers while the laborers were starved while they worked. The bodies that were filmed tended to be those who had died of starvation, but whose bodies had not yet been cremated. As to “they weren’t all Jews,” that was simply the result of you not paying attention. Jews get the majority of the attention regarding the Nazi atrocities because they were the largest single group publicly identified by Hitler and his cronies to be exterminated. When Germany invaded France and the Netherlands, they did not go door to door looking for Slavs or the mentally retarded. They did go door to door looking for Jews. If you never heard that millions of people other than Jews were murdered, you were simply not paying attention. Now you are pretending that your ignorance is a reason for us to believe that an event never occurred. > [@Gack](#): > > The Oprah special opened with her and Elie at the gates of Auschwitz, and within a minute the Belsen pictures are on the screen, while Oprah intones … > These photos, and this lie, that they are evidence of a Nazi plan to systematically murder Jews, are the primary reason that people believe the holocaust. The people who produced the Oprah special know where the film footage is from, every holocaust scholar in the US knows, and yet not one to my knowledge has revealed the fraud. Another case of incredibly poor failure of logic. For any major event, there are a limited number of films and photos sitting around that movie producers can get their hands on easily. Look at any WWII documentary and you will see the same shots of aircraft attacking targets, tanks and artillery firing, infantrymen going house to house, ships blowing up and sinking under torpedo attack. Watch enough such documentaries and you will notice how many of the same film clips re-appear from one to another. Based on your logic, WWII never happened because the movie producers are “lying” about what they are showing on the screen. The reality is not that anyone is lying about the events, but that people putting together films and videos spend more money on the narration and the editing than they do on sending people out to look at archives for new films. The next time I see an SB2C attacking the Japanese fleet at Midway or a Hawker Typhoon fighting in the Battle of Britain, I will remember that those battles never really happened (in Gack world). The reality is that the Nazis arranged for the murder of between 12 and 17 million people, (perhaps more), and that they created the conditions for another 20 million, or so, to die. Any effort to deny or minimize such atrocities will be seen as self-serving bullshit. David Irving tried to prove that the Holocaust never happened in a British court where the motivations of those sued are not taken into account and he was soundly disproven. We have the testimony of Adolf Eichmann, at his trial and in the biography that was written before his capture, explaining that he did, indeed, arrange for millions of Jews and others to be sent to death camps for “extermination.” Denying that it occurred because one did not pay attention in history class to know that more people than just Jews were murdered, or because a museum guide got his spiel wrong (as so many do), or because one never paid attention to the number of times that old film clips are re-used in documentaries demonstrates a serious lack of awareness of the reality of the world–or deliberate effort to deny reality for some other motive. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/357 "2013-09-21T12:30:01Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Let’s say, for just a second, that you’re right (however stupid the theory is) > > Who benefits from making those groovy Nazis into villains? What is/was the motive? What’s the payoff for the biggest cover-up in human history? What’s the _point_ of this “Holohoax” (to use the term you’re tip-toeing around)? I’m sorry but that is a rather silly question. The biggest most brutal of wars had just come to an end. A war not only against Germany as a nation but also against a vying world philosophy, fascism. Fascism and its Nazi branch needed to be rooted out for the democratic system to prevail. Bare in mind that the Nazis had had wide support amongst their conquered populations. Of course they needed to be villified. Having them tried in a court was one way. Over-emphasising the resistance movements another. Showing the horror of the concentration camps was and still is most effective in shying people away from Nazi ideas. Who benifits from pointing and saying “this is what happens if you follow _that_ road”? I would say, all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/358 "2013-09-21T13:20:32Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Bare in mind You used the wrong word. Your argument is invalid. Therefore the Holocaust never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/359 "2013-09-21T13:21:06Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Gack- You’ve almost got your whole story on the table. Please continue from where you were about the two anonymous jews, the three men who planted this evidence in the press, and how it leads back to 1900. You are correct that I have most of my argument on the table, save the history, and also the Nuremberg trial. The history - in 1906 there was an article in the NYT about a ‘systematic and murderous extermination’ of six million Jews that was currently in progress … [http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-archive.blogspot.com/2010/01/ny-times-reports-in-1906-that-russias.html](http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-archive.blogspot.com/2010/01/ny-times-reports-in-1906-that-russias.html) By the time of WW I the propaganda machine was well oiled and it has been documented in the book 'The First Holocaust, Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims in WW I" by Don Heddesheimer, the book is documented with numerous reprints of articles from the NYT and the Jewish press, here is an example, an article by the former governor of NY claiming that the Jews were facing a holocaust of six million persons in 1919 … [http://codoh.com/library/document/871](http://codoh.com/library/document/871) The primary organizations involved in creating the stories were American Jewish Congress and the World Jewish Congress. Fast forward to WW II when there were already many members of the Jewish fund raising efforts from WW I with access to high government officials. The WJC started creating typical war time propaganda from the start of the war and it was frequently published in the NYT. Hollywood was involved with screenwriter Ben Hecht writing articles for the Readers’ Digest and creating some sort of holocaust play that traveled from city to city and was seen by E. Roosevelt, among others. The US military also participate in the propaganda efforts with a special psych warfare group. That takes us up to the War Refugee Board. There is an impression that the Nazis confessed to the holocaust at Nuremberg. That is misleading. Only one Nazi, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, second to Himmler in the SS (?), was charged with direct participation in the killing of Jews - when he testified in his own defense he stated that he first heard of the killing of Jews in the camps on allied radio, and when confronted with accusations of his participation he testified as follows … COL. BROOKHART: Witness after witness, by testimony and affidavit, has said that the gas chamber killings were done on general or specific orders of Kaltenbrunner. KALTENBRUNNER: Show me one of those men or any of those orders. It is utterly impossible. COL. BROOKHART: Practically all of the orders came through Kaltenbrunner. KALTENBRUNNER: Entirely impossible. On the other hand, we have discussed the affidavit of Rudolf Hoess, one time commandant of Auschwitz. Hoess was tortured, signed a document in English that he couldn’t read, and testified at Auschwitz as a defense witness. You can see Hoess’s account of his torture and capture in a previous post. Nuremberg is a subject in itself and covered in detail in Butz’s book, and here [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648b2JlrSyg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648b2JlrSyg) Suffice to say that none of the defendants confessed to anything regarding the holocaust. However, because unchallenged testimony from ‘eyewitnesses’ and Hoess and others, after the Nuremberg trial the basic blueprint of the holocaust was declared to be a judicial fact that could not be challenged in subsequent trials. Even now challenging the basic blueprint in public, much less a trial, is a ticket to jail in 17 countries. How about this, Ernst Zundel was tried for challenging the holocaust narrative, and not only was he convicted, his lawyer was also convicted and put in jail for defending him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/360 "2013-09-21T14:09:18Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > You are correct that I have most of my argument on the table, save the history, and also the Nuremberg trial. > > The history - in 1906 there was an article in the NYT about a ‘systematic and murderous extermination’ of six million Jews that was currently in progress … > > [http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-archive.blogspot.com/2010/01/ny-times-reports-in-1906-that-russias.html](http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-archive.blogspot.com/2010/01/ny-times-reports-in-1906-that-russias.html) > > By the time of WW I the propaganda machine was well oiled and it has been documented in the book 'The First Holocaust, Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims in WW I" by Don Heddesheimer, the book is documented with numerous reprints of articles from the NYT and the Jewish press, here is an example, an article by the former governor of NY claiming that the Jews were facing a holocaust of six million persons in 1919 … > > [http://codoh.com/library/document/871](http://codoh.com/library/document/871) > > The primary organizations involved in creating the stories were American Jewish Congress and the World Jewish Congress. The writer of the 1919 article was an Irish Catholic. And he talked about the starvation of the Jews, with almost one million more when the children are included. Not what the Holocaust denier source spins there. > [@Gack](#): > > Fast forward to WW II when there were already many members of the Jewish fund raising efforts from WW I with access to high government officials. The WJC started creating typical war time propaganda from the start of the war and it was frequently published in the NYT. Hollywood was involved with screenwriter Ben Hecht writing articles for the Readers’ Digest and creating some sort of holocaust play that traveled from city to city and was seen by E. Roosevelt, among others. The US military also participate in the propaganda efforts with a special psych warfare group. That takes us up to the War Refugee Board. > > There is an impression that the Nazis confessed to the holocaust at Nuremberg. That is misleading. Only one Nazi, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, second to Himmler in the SS (?), was charged with direct participation in the killing of Jews - when he testified in his own defense he stated that he first heard of the killing of Jews in the camps on allied radio, and when confronted with accusations of his participation he testified as follows … > > COL. BROOKHART: Witness after witness, by testimony and affidavit, has said that the gas chamber killings were done on general or specific orders of Kaltenbrunner. > > KALTENBRUNNER: Show me one of those men or any of those orders. It is utterly impossible. > > COL. BROOKHART: Practically all of the orders came through Kaltenbrunner. > > KALTENBRUNNER: Entirely impossible. > > On the other hand, we have discussed the affidavit of Rudolf Hoess, one time commandant of Auschwitz. Hoess was tortured, signed a document in English that he couldn’t read, and testified at Auschwitz as a defense witness. You can see Hoess’s account of his torture and capture in a previous post. Nuremberg is a subject in itself and covered in detail in Butz’s book, and here > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648b2JlrSyg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648b2JlrSyg) > > Suffice to say that none of the defendants confessed to anything regarding the holocaust. However, because unchallenged testimony from ‘eyewitnesses’ and Hoess and others, after the Nuremberg trial the basic blueprint of the holocaust was declared to be a judicial fact that could not be challenged in subsequent trials. Holocaust deniers lose trials for the simple reason that they falsify history. > **[BBC - History - World Wars: Denying the Holocaust](https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/deniers_01.shtml#three)** > > Deborah Lipstadt eattempts to cover up the truth of the Holocaust. > [@](#): > > Many perpetrators confessed to what they had done during the war, after it was over. For example, Otto Ohlendorf, commander of one of the Einsatzgruppen units, testified quite openly that between June 1941 and 1942 his Einsatzgruppe murdered 90,000 people. > > Deniers dismiss confessions by German perpetrators that a ‘Final Solution’ to the ‘Jewish question’ was indeed a part of the Nazi programme - by saying the confessions were produced under torture. They say that those who confessed knew their admissions would result in a death sentence, so would not have confessed except under duress - and that their accounts of their wartime activities should thus be disregarded. > > This, however, ignores the fact that some of the more detailed confessions were written after the perpetrators had been sentenced to death. It also ignores the fact that many of the perpetrators described - sometimes in great detail - what happened, but insisted that they either had nothing to do with it or were forced by their superiors to participate. > > ``` > One must marvel at the power of those supposed to be responsible for this hoax. > > ``` > > Thus this argument fails to take into account the statements of Nazis such as the Commandant of Birkenau concentration camp, Rudolf Höss, who described the mass murders that took place in his camp in a document written after he had been sentenced to death. It also fails to account for Adolf Eichmann who, in the memoir he wrote during his trial, spoke of the gassing of the Jews. > > Some deniers explain away the confessions by positing that after the war these Germans were subjected to a barrage of propaganda, and themselves become victims of the hoax. One must marvel at the power of those supposed to be responsible for this hoax. Not only did they win the cooperation of the world’s greatest military and political powers, forge thousands of documents in record time without being detected, and create physical evidence attesting to an annihilation programme, but they even convinced the very people said to be a part of the hoax that it had actually happened. > [@Gack](#): > > Even now challenging the basic blueprint in public, much less a trial, is a ticket to jail in 17 countries. How about this, Ernst Zundel was tried for challenging the holocaust narrative, and not only was he convicted, his lawyer was also convicted and put in jail for defending him. Misleading statement. > **[Ernst Zündel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Z%C3%BCndel#cite_note-35)** > > Ernst Christof Friedrich Zündel (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}German: \[ˈtsʏndl̩\]; 24 April 1939 – 5 August 2017) was a German neo-Nazi publisher and pamphleteer of Holocaust denial literature. He was jailed several times: in Canada for publishing literature "likely to incite hatred against an identifiable group", and o In 1977... > [@](#): > > His trial was scheduled for five days beginning November 8, 2005, but ran into an early delay when Judge Ulrich Meinerzhagen ruled that Horst Mahler, whose license to practice as a lawyer was withdrawn in 2004 and who, in January 2005, was sentenced to nine months in prison for inciting racial hatred, could not be part of the defense team. Mahler had been associated with the violent far-left Red Army Faction in the 1970s, but has since become a supporter of far-right and antisemitic groups. Zündel’s public defender Sylvia Stolz was also dismissed, on the grounds that her written submissions to the court included Mahler’s ideas. On November 15, 2005, Meinerzhagen announced that the trial was to be rescheduled to allow new counsel time to prepare.[35] It was not for defending him but because the lawyer had been convicted already on his own faults and had no license, also for clear conflicts of interest. I have seen enough already, you do rely on sources that lie to you and you are an ignorant that is reaching for the willful level. No one can take you seriously. 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