# Questions about Hitler and Nazi Germany's attempted extermination of Europe's Jews **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168 "2013-09-18T19:02:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/381 "2013-09-21T16:42:10Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > There is no mystery here, the Jews were put in camps because it was Hitler’s intention to move them all out of Europe. WHY did he want to move them out of Europe? He shipped them in the wrong direction,btw. > [@Gack](#): > > First he encouraged Jewish immigration… He wanted Jews to move to Germany? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/382 "2013-09-21T17:04:56Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > First he encouraged Jewish immigration Comments like this encourage the view that you’re trolling. You don’t want to do that. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/383 "2013-09-21T17:19:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He wanted Jews to move to Germany? Well, I mean, with all his health problems, he probably just wanted to find a good doctor. …what? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/384 "2013-09-21T17:33:17Z")
In any case, it is on record that that Nazis **intended** to kill off all of Europe’s Jews. See the minutes of the 1942 [Wannsee Conference](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference). > [@](#): > > In preparation for the conference, Eichmann drafted a list of the numbers of Jews in the various European countries. Countries were listed in two groups, “A” and “B”. “A” countries were those under direct Reich control or occupation (or partially occupied and quiescent, in the case of Vichy France); “B” countries were allied or client states, neutral, or at war with Germany.[37]\*\* The numbers reflect actions already completed by Nazi forces; for example, Estonia is listed as Judenfrei (free of Jews), since the 4,500 Jews who remained in Estonia after the German occupation had been exterminated by the end of 1941.[38] > > Heydrich opened the conference with an account of the anti-Jewish measures taken in Germany since the Nazi seizure of power in 1933. He said that between 1933 and October 1941, 537,000 German, Austrian, and Czech Jews had emigrated.[39] This information was taken from a briefing paper prepared for him the previous week by Eichmann.[40] > > Heydrich reported that there were approximately eleven million Jews in the whole of Europe, of whom half were in countries not under German control.[37]\*\* He explained that since further Jewish emigration had been prohibited by Himmler, a new solution would take its place: “evacuating” Jews to the east. This would be a temporary solution, a step towards the final solution of the Jewish question.[41] > > > [@](#): > > > > Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes. The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as the seed of a new Jewish revival.[42] > > German historian Peter Longerich notes that vague orders couched in terminology that had a specific meaning for members of the regime were common, especially when people were being ordered to carry out criminal activities. Leaders were given briefings about the need to be “severe” and “firm”; all Jews were to be viewed as potential enemies that had to be dealt with ruthlessly.[43] The wording of the Wannsee Protocol—the distributed minutes of the meeting—made it clear to participants that evacuation east was a euphemism for death.[44] > > \ > > The Wannsee Conference lasted only about ninety minutes. The enormous importance which has been attached to the conference by postwar writers was not evident to most of its participants at the time. Heydrich did not call the meeting to make fundamental new decisions on the Jewish question. Massive killings of Jews in the conquered territories in the Soviet Union and Poland were ongoing and a new extermination camp was already under construction at Belzec at the time of the conference; other extermination camps were in the planning stages.[60][25] The decision to exterminate the Jews had already been made, and Heydrich, as Himmler’s emissary, held the meeting to ensure the cooperation of the various departments in conducting the deportations.[61] According to Longerich, a primary goal of the meeting was to emphasise that once the deportations had been completed, the implementation of the Final Solution became an internal matter of the SS, totally outside the purview of any other agency.[62] A secondary goal was to determine the scope of the deportations and arrive at definitions of who was Jewish, who was Mischlinge, and who (if anybody) should be spared.[62] “The representatives of the ministerial bureaucracy had made it plain that they had no concerns about the principle of deportation per se. This was indeed the crucial result of the meeting and the main reason why Heydrich had detailed minutes prepared and widely circulated”, said Longerich.[63] Their presence at the meeting also ensured that all those present were accomplices and accessories to the murders that were about to be undertaken.[64] ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/385 "2013-09-21T17:34:12Z")
Does conquering most of Europe count as Jews moving to Germany, or Germany moving to the Jews? ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/386 "2013-09-21T18:14:48Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Between 1906 and WWII, a period of more than thirty years, the entirety of a global Jewish misinformation campaign preparing the way for the greatest hoax in history, was a measly _two articles_, published more than a decade apart…? Not exactly. The book I referenced ‘Jewish Fundraising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During WW I’, that world war ONE, documents many articles claiming that the Jews in Europe were in the gravest danger, etc. Many more examples here … [http://www.prothink.org/holohoax/](http://www.prothink.org/holohoax/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/387 "2013-09-21T18:17:57Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > Not exactly. The book I referenced ‘Jewish Fundraising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During WW I’, that world war ONE, documents many articles claiming that the Jews in Europe were in the gravest danger, etc. > > Many more examples here … > > [http://www.prothink.org/holohoax/](http://www.prothink.org/holohoax/) Without clicking that link, I would venture a guess those articles are from Zionists trying to encourage European Jews to emigrate to Palestine. Zionists might exaggerate the dangers for that goal, believing it good for the Jews in the long run, but they never wanted the Holocaust to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/388 "2013-09-21T18:18:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > WHY did he want to move them out of Europe? He shipped them in the wrong direction,btw.He wanted Jews to move to Germany? Setting the record straight … _Nazi policy in the 1930s was to compel the Jews to leave Germany. In the early years of Nazi rule in Germany, a number of measures where introduced to facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine_ The Nazis and the Zionists made agreements to get the Jews to Palestine. This was written up in a book called ‘The Transfer Agreement’ by Edwin Black a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/389 "2013-09-21T18:24:26Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > Setting the record straight … > > _Nazi policy in the 1930s was to compel the Jews to leave Germany. In the early years of Nazi rule in Germany, a number of measures where introduced to facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine_ > > The Nazis and the Zionists made agreements to get the Jews to Palestine. This was written up in a book called ‘The Transfer Agreement’ by Edwin Black a few years ago. _Why did he want them out of Germany?_ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/390 "2013-09-21T18:24:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In any case, it is on record that that Nazis **intended** to kill off all of Europe’s Jews. See the minutes of the 1942 [Wannsee Conference](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference). > [@](#): > > Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes. The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as the seed of a new Jewish revival.[42] And you still haven’t answered that, **Gack.** ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/391 "2013-09-21T18:28:17Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > Not exactly. The book I referenced ‘Jewish Fundraising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During WW I’, that world war ONE, documents many articles claiming that the Jews in Europe were in the gravest danger, etc. > > Many more examples here … > > [http://www.prothink.org/holohoax/](http://www.prothink.org/holohoax/) Hold on. Of course there were plenty of articles “claiming that the Jews in Europe were in the gravest danger” - they were. What I wonder about, specifically, is the “six million” figure. You have, so far, mentioned no more than _two_ articles using this specific number in the years between 1906 and WWII. Are there more examples? And hey, you forgot to answer my second question. I’ll repeat it: Why did the worldwide Jewish conspiracy pick _that_ number, specifically? Do you believe, as the writers of that homepage you linked to seem to do, that it was chosen because, in Kabbalism, supposedly: > [@](#): > > 6,000,000 is the number of perfect souls times ten, and ten is number of the Sephiroth, the divine emanations of G\_d as seen in the Kabala. […] As you will see, vav/six symbolizes cosmic completion. Thereby, it is an integral part of the miraculous and mystical Holy Name of G\_d, a key element in Semitic sorcery and ceremonial magic. […] It is a purely symbolic, esoteric, mystical number, symbolizing the perfect result, a perfect creation, a magical Great Work in progress. Perhaps this is a part of tikkun olam, the Kabalistic-Talmudic “repairing” or “perfecting” of the world, done of course by the self-chosen ones. […] The Semitic sorcerers, the tzaddiks and cohanim, of the centuries old ritual murder cult, lurking beneath the outer trappings of Judaism, recognized that in addition to copious amounts of goy blood, a little actual Jewish blood in the mix (“chosen ones” chosen for sacrifice) is particularly useful for certain magical workings […] The primary purpose of the 6,000,000 holo-myths is deceptive, evil and occult. It is an ongoing magical working of the Dark Forces. The Elders of Zion cast Protocols-like spells to deceive the goyim, causing them to ostentatiously and obligingly revere the Chosen Ones – and support them with money. This clever holo/hoax/hex works ever so well on the common people, especially the self-deceived so-called Judeo-Christians, thus we cannot deny its magic powers. Do you believe this? Do you believe any of it? All of it? None of it? Please get back to me on this. ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/392 "2013-09-21T18:39:38Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Do you believe this? Do you believe any of it? All of it? None of it? > > Please get back to me on this. It seems unlikely. I think the six million figure was the total # of Jews in Russia as per the 1906 article, or something like that, so they started with it, it sounded good, etc. Beyond that I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/393 "2013-09-21T18:42:28Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > It seems unlikely. I think the six million figure was the total # of Jews in Russia as per the 1906 article, or something like that, so they started with it, it sounded good, etc. Beyond that I have no idea. So, you’ve given no serious, independant, study of any of this? ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/394 "2013-09-21T18:44:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And you still haven’t answered that, **Gack.** I can’t explain it. These were 15 pages (I think) of notes taken on a meeting that goes into detail about how the Jews are to be rounded up and sent east … From the document … \*"III. Another possible solution of the problem has now taken the place of emigration, i.e. the evacuation of the Jews to the East, provided that the Führer gives the appropriate approval in advance. These actions are, however, only to be considered provisional, but practical experience is already being collected which is of the greatest importance in relation to the future final solution of the Jewish question. In the course of the practical execution of the final solution, Europe will be combed through from west to east. Germany proper, including the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, will have to be handled first due to the housing problem and additional social and political necessities. The evacuated Jews will first be sent, group by group, to so-called transit ghettos, from which they will be transported to the East. SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich went on to say that an important prerequisite for the evacuation as such is the exact definition of the persons involved. It is not intended to evacuate Jews over 65 years old, but to send them to an old-age ghetto - Theresienstadt is being considered for this purpose."\* ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/395 "2013-09-21T18:46:25Z")
Why did he want the Jews to leave Germany, **Gack**? ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/396 "2013-09-21T18:47:39Z")
> [@simster](#): > > So, you’ve given no serious, independant, study of any of this? Of why the number of about to be exterminated Jews is frequently listed as six million, stating in 1906, and in many articles up to the advent of WW II? No, the number is fantasy from some source or the other, I haven’t given it any thought, I don’t think there is anything of substance to think about. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/397 "2013-09-21T18:53:35Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > It seems unlikely. I think the six million figure was the total # of Jews in Russia as per the 1906 article, or something like that, so they started with it, it sounded good, etc. Beyond that I have no idea. OK. So the idea from 1906 and on was… What, exactly? To intentionally provoke, some thirty-five years down the line, a halfway, sorta-kinda Holocaust, which they would then portray as the “real deal”, with the fabled six million victims? And if so, why? To what end? And did these Jewish conspirators know from the very beginning (ca. 1906) that they wanted to pin the blame on Germany? Or could it just as well have been Russia, France, the Ukraine or whatever? And if it _had_ to be Germany, specifically - then why? ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/398 "2013-09-21T18:56:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why did he want the Jews to leave Germany, **Gack**? There was a history of anti-semitism in Germany. I’m reading a book on the Warburgs, from which I gather that the Jews were pretty much segregated prior to 1800, and were gradually emancipated during the 1800s. The Warburg book refers to the birth of ‘modern’ anti-semitism, that is post emancipation anti-semitism as starting with a German book ‘The Victory of Judaism’ by Wilhelm Marr. I just read where there was a Anti-Semitic political party in Germany in the late 1800s. The development of Hitler’s anti-semitic opinions is given in detail in Mein Kampf. In short he equated Jews with communism, the Social Democratic political party in Germany, and the trade unions, all of whom he saw as working to undermine German nationalism. Anti-semitism in Germany no doubt increased after WW 1 because the country was reduced to poverty, turmoil, and strife, and the Jews became a scapegoat. I don’t have a link for this, but it seems plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/399 "2013-09-21T18:56:39Z")
You haven’t given it any thought? And yet you ask us to consider all the evidence? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/400 "2013-09-21T19:01:28Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > Of why the number of about to be exterminated Jews is frequently listed as six million, stating in 1906, and in many articles up to the advent of WW II? No, the number is fantasy from some source or the other, I haven’t given it any thought, I don’t think there is anything of substance to think about. In order for you to prove that the numbers, etc are ‘fantasy and made up’ - perhaps you need to do the work to prove that - you know, go back and reseach the actual topic - then you could, you know, provide some information that could be used to validate that it is, or is not, ‘fantasy’ - otherwise - your dismissing without cause. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168.md?page=21)