# Questions about Hitler and Nazi Germany's attempted extermination of Europe's Jews **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168 "2013-09-18T19:02:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/641 "2013-09-26T02:28:39Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > That is _not_ evidence that the U.S. government didn’t believe, or at least suspect, that the Holocaust was occurring. It is evidence that the German government denied that it was occurring. Which, just like the perpetrators denying it during their trials, is surprising to no one. It is direct evidence that they did not think the Jews in Auschwitz were being killed. By the way, did you know that Elie Wiesel was in the Auschwitz hospital when the Soviet army approached, he had been operated on for an infected foot by a Jewish doctor. The Nazis gave him the option to evacuate with them, or await the Soviets. He chose to go with the Nazis, along with his father. It is all recounted in his book ‘Night’. Otto Frank, Anne’s father, and Primo Levi, we also in the Auschwitz hospital when the Soviet army approached the camp. They chose to stay and were liberated by the them. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/642 "2013-09-26T02:33:26Z")
Is it wrong that with all this talk of an “experiment” I can’t help but think of the infamous paper towel tube test? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/643 "2013-09-26T02:55:24Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > By the way, did you know that Elie Wiesel was in the Auschwitz hospital when the Soviet army approached, he had been operated on for an infected foot by a Jewish doctor. The Nazis gave him the option to evacuate with them, or await the Soviets. He chose to go with the Nazis, along with his father. It is all recounted in his book ‘Night’. Not only that, he points out how kind the Nazis were to them during the evacuation, too! > [@](#): > > The SS made us increase our pace. “Faster, you tramps! You flea-ridden dogs!” Why not? Moving fast made us a little warmer. The blood flowed more readily in our veins. We had the feeling of being alive. > > “Faster, you filthy dogs!” We were no longer marching, we were running. Like automatons. The SS were running as well, weapons in hand. It looked as though we were running from them. > > The night was pitch-black. From time to time a shot exploded in the darkness. They had orders to shoot anyone who could not sustain the pace. Their fingers on the trigger, they did not deprive themselves of their pleasure. If one of us stopped for a second, a quick shot eliminated the filthy dog. > > I was putting one foot in front of the other, like a machine. I was dragging this emaciated body that was still such a weight. If only I could have shed it! Though I tried to put it out of my mind, I couldn’t help thinking that there were two of us; my body and I. And I hated that body. I kept repeating to myself. > > “Don’t think, don’t stop, run!” > > Near me, men were collapsing into the dirty snow. Gunshots. ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/644 "2013-09-26T02:56:48Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Gack, read more about Blobel and its described that he developed a method of disposing of bodies involving alternating layers of corpses and firewood, using rails as grills AND using an accelerant like gasoline as well. The Nuremberg trial statement is brief so it merely describes the bodies as being “covered in flammable material”. The exact mechanics of burning the bodies wasn’t relevant so it wasn’t included in the statement. You’ll notice the previous paragraph in the Nuremberg statement refers to them not having material and having to wait until the correct materials were obtained to burn the bodies. “The order could not be carried out immediately partly because Dr. Thomas was disinclined to carry it out, and also because the materials required for the burning of the bodies was not available.” > > Every other witness account of open pit cremations includes descriptions of wood and fuel being used. No one is claiming that bodies had gasoline splashed on them and they burnt to nothing. The quote is unequivocal, \*“After the top had been removed the bodies were covered with inflammable material and ignited. It took about two days until the grave burned down to the bottom. I myself observed that the fire had glowed down to the bottom.” \* Moreover, this was Blobel’s second affidavit, in the first he confesses to witnessing killings using gas vans, shootings, killing women and children, overseeing the Babi Yar massacre, and disposing of the bodies. However, he doesn’t state that he actually witnessed the burning of bodies, so I hypothesize that the second affidavit was prepared to remedy that defect in the first. Here is an excerpt from the first Blobel affidavit - \*In January 1942 I was removed from this post of chief of the Sonderkommando 4A and was transferred to Berlin for disciplinary reasons. There I had no assignment for a time. I was under the supervision of the office IV, under the former Gruppenfuhrer Mueller. In the fall of 1942 I was assigned to go to the occupied Eastern Territories as Mueller’s deputy, and to wipe out the traces of the mass graves of people executed by the Einsatzgruppen. This was my task until summer of 1944.\* Blobel was relieved of his duties in '42 because he was a drunk. He was then assigned to remove all traces of the holocaust in the east. ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/645 "2013-09-26T02:58:18Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Keep Gacking That Chicken! I will Gack the chicken tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/646 "2013-09-26T03:04:33Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > It is direct evidence that they did not think the Jews in Auschwitz were being killed. And they changed their mind after they liberated the camps. What conclusions can we draw from that? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/647 "2013-09-26T03:05:26Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > It is direct evidence that they did not think the Jews in Auschwitz were being killed. > > By the way, did you know that Elie Wiesel was in the Auschwitz hospital when the Soviet army approached, he had been operated on for an infected foot by a Jewish doctor. The Nazis gave him the option to evacuate with them, or await the Soviets. He chose to go with the Nazis, along with his father. It is all recounted in his book ‘Night’. > > Otto Frank, Anne’s father, and Primo Levi, we also in the Auschwitz hospital when the Soviet army approached the camp. They chose to stay and were liberated by the them. Wrong. If that is direct evidence, the reality is that you are missing that declassified papers report that the Allies became aware of what was going on at Auschwitz close to the end of the war, but decided not to bomb the death camp as it was too far away, the bombings were not as accurate as one sees today and it was not a manufacturing target. Also knowing that prisoners were going to be the main casualties was a factor on deciding not to bomb the place. Evidence also shows that Churchill in particular was appalled by the information reporting the atrocities going on at Auschwitz. https://www.youtube.com/embed/GRUkiPIpxec?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque Auschwitz: The Forgotten Evidence (2004) BBC. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/648 "2013-09-26T03:06:28Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > I will Gack the chicken tomorrow. Shall I tell him what was the reference that he missed? :D:p ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/649 "2013-09-26T03:13:37Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > I will Gack the chicken tomorrow. Don’t bother. A better test would involve whole (not cut) animals more similar in size to humans. Like sheep. Pigs would do in a pinch, but sheep are much closer in size to humans. And a lot of them. A single sheep isn’t much of a comparison to a pile of bodies. Of course, this improved experiment design would be hugely dangerous (and expensive), so I wouldn’t recommend it. Besides, other than the Nazis we do have examples of mass cremation (India just did one a few months ago for flood victims), and your pet theory would claim those don’t work they way they actually did, either. Arguing “theory” in the face of evidence, especially recent evidence where there was no reason to hide the methods, and using a single small animal less than 5% of the mass of a single human being for comparison to a pile of multiple human bodies, flies in the face of all reason and sense. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/650 "2013-09-26T03:23:10Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > I will Gack the chicken tomorrow. Don’t you think you’re going to need 300,000-400,000 chickens? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/651 "2013-09-26T03:50:14Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > It is direct evidence that they did not think the Jews in Auschwitz were being killed. Did you actually read the document, or did you just expect us not to? It in no way says that. It says that when confronted with the rumor, the Germans denied it, and were to be formally notified that “this Government expects that Jewish and other survivors of these and other concentration, detention, and labor camps in Germany and German-controlled territory will be kept alive by German authorities.” > [@Gack](#): > > By the way, did you know that Elie Wiesel was in the Auschwitz hospital when the Soviet army approached, he had been operated on for an infected foot by a Jewish doctor. The Nazis gave him the option to evacuate with them, or await the Soviets. He chose to go with the Nazis, along with his father. It is all recounted in his book ‘Night’. > > Otto Frank, Anne’s father, and Primo Levi, we also in the Auschwitz hospital when the Soviet army approached the camp. They chose to stay and were liberated by the them. Wiesel didn’t want to be separated from his father by staying behind in the hospital, so the Holocaust never happened. Impeccable logic as usual. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/652 "2013-09-26T03:53:52Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > The quote is unequivocal, Bzzt… only in your mind. Once again you have ignored the relevant information about having to get the materials to burn the bodies, flatly stated your opinion as fact and then started spouting irrelevancies. Gack you are willfully ignorant and obviously happy to stay that way. I’d like to point that that today the President of Iran has gone ahead and admitted that the Holocaust happened and that it was a great crime against humanity. [http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/25/irans-new-president-yes-the-holocaust-happened/](http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/25/irans-new-president-yes-the-holocaust-happened/) Your numbers are dwindling Gack… have fun alone with with your burnt Chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/653 "2013-09-26T08:31:36Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > He was then assigned to remove all traces of the holocaust in the east. Which, according to you, never happened. So the Nazis assigned people to the job of removing evidence of an event which hadn’t occurred? And the reason why you believe it hadn’t occurred? Because there is not enough evidence. And the only possible conclusion that can be deduced from this lack of evidence is that the Holocaust never happened. Because it’s not like we know of anybody being assigned to remove all traces of the Holocaust in the east… You’re losing this argument so badly, we can actually cite your own posts to show you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/654 "2013-09-26T09:17:27Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Phrasing 😉 :o …I hope everyone understands what I _actually_ mean. ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/655 "2013-09-26T15:27:31Z")
Gacking completed. The fire burned for 55 minutes, no significant damage done to the chicken, some of the skin is black, but for the most part the fire burned above the chicken. There is a significant amount of fluid in the bottom of the pan which I thought was gas but since the fire is out and the fluid is there I think it might be chicken fat. So, the results are in. If you cover packed bodies (represented by chicken parts) with gasoline, even in a closed container which doesn’t leak out the gas, and then light it, the bodies are not cremated at all. So, Blobel’s description of the cremation process is not viable, to put it mildly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/656 "2013-09-26T15:31:30Z")
Your experiment was already dismissed. You wasted your own time, but you’re not going to waste anyone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/657 "2013-09-26T15:49:04Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > So, Blobel’s description of the cremation process is not viable, to put it mildly. Having had it explained to you several times in several ways why your experiment was not in any way equivalent to the destruction of bodies in a mass grave, that your methodology was deeply flawed and that on top of everything it was potentially dangerous, you went and did it anyway. All you’ve thus demonstrated was wilful ignorance and a lack of basic understanding of the scientific method. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/658 "2013-09-26T16:06:29Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > Gacking completed. The fire burned for 55 minutes, no significant damage done to the chicken, some of the skin is black, but for the most part the fire burned above the chicken. There is a significant amount of fluid in the bottom of the pan which I thought was gas but since the fire is out and the fluid is there I think it might be chicken fat. > > So, the results are in. If you cover packed bodies (represented by chicken parts) with gasoline, even in a closed container which doesn’t leak out the gas, and then light it, the bodies are not cremated at all. > > So, Blobel’s description of the cremation process is not viable, to put it mildly. You’re taking one sentence of Blobel’s statement, reading it perfectly literally (“he didn’t mention wood, that means there wasn’t wood!”), and ignoring everything else. If there was additional fuel, like wood and/or trash, in between the bodies, Blobel still might have said what he said. Once again, you’re just finding weak pebbles of “doubt” among mountains of evidence, and even failing with these. You’ve been lied to by fraudsters like the IHR, and it seems increasingly clear that you’re OK with that. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/659 "2013-09-26T16:23:24Z")
Well, I buy it. Seems like this “experiment” also proves the moon landings and 9/11 were a hoax. Puts a new spin on bottle rockets and balsa wood structures. Oh, wait, it doesn’t put a new spin on anything, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/660 "2013-09-26T16:43:30Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > Gacking completed. The fire burned for 55 minutes, no significant damage done to the chicken, some of the skin is black, but for the most part the fire burned above the chicken. There is a significant amount of fluid in the bottom of the pan which I thought was gas but since the fire is out and the fluid is there I think it might be chicken fat. > > So, the results are in. If you cover packed bodies (represented by chicken parts) with gasoline, even in a closed container which doesn’t leak out the gas, and then light it, the bodies are not cremated at all. > > So, Blobel’s description of the cremation process is not viable, to put it mildly. Well, that was pointless, and proved nothing. On the plus side, you didn’t set yourself on fire, so there’s that. Mazel Tov. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168.md?page=34)