# Questions about Hitler and Nazi Germany's attempted extermination of Europe's Jews **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168 "2013-09-18T19:02:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/61 "2013-09-19T02:53:04Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > During World War II there were about 120,000 Japanese-Americans confined to internment camps. Of that total [1,862 – about 1.5% – died while in the camps](http://home.comcast.net/~chtongyu/internment/camps.html). > > For that matter, Japan held 27,465 U.S. soldiers as prisoners of war. The Japanese were not known for humane treatment of prisoners, and[11,107 died while in captivity](http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/usprisoners_japancomp.htm). That’s about 40%. > > Now let’s look at official German figures (not any of those apologist estimates!) > > Dachau held about 206,000 prisoners during 1933-1945 and had [31,000 registered deaths.](http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=1371) For [Auschwitz](http://jewise.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/official-german-record-of-prisoners-in-auschwitz-concentration-camp-may-1940-through-december-1944/) the figures (1940-1944) are 334,785 prisoners and 109,215 recorded deaths. That’s about 26% – closer to the Japanese percentage than the Americans. > > My question is, if the Nazis weren’t \*trying \*to kill their prisoners, how could they possibly have tolerated a death rate more than 17x the Americans? You’re missing one important number. Holocaust deniers will point out that Germany was losing a war, and the deaths were exacerbated by the destruction of the infrastructure needed to support the camps. If this were true, of course, it would affect all prisoners in Germany more-or-less equally. So, what was the death rate in POW camps in Germany during the war? Turns out it was about 4% ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/62 "2013-09-19T03:03:03Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > I have asked you to discuss what you know about 1 or 2 of them and then I will examine them and give them some thought. The purpose of this thread is not to allow you to discredit some photographs one by one. The purpose of this thread is for you to answer the OP’s questions as you said you would do. From the other thread: Gack Join Date: Sep 2013 Quote: Originally Posted by iiandyiiii So you are refusing to answer those questions. If I start a thread on those questions, will you answer them? Gack: To the best of my knowledge. So we’re waiting for clear answers. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/63 "2013-09-19T03:12:05Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The purpose of this thread is not to allow you to discredit some photographs one by one. The purpose of this thread is for you to answer the OP’s questions as you said you would do. > > From the other thread: > Gack > > Join Date: Sep 2013 > Quote: > Originally Posted by iiandyiiii > So you are refusing to answer those questions. If I start a thread on those questions, will you answer them? > > Gack: To the best of my knowledge. > > So we’re waiting for clear answers. to be fair - he said he would answer to the ‘best of his knowledge’ - so, apparently, we are getting his ‘best’ right now. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/64 "2013-09-19T03:13:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You’re missing one important number. Holocaust deniers will point out that Germany was losing a war, and the deaths were exacerbated by the destruction of the infrastructure needed to support the camps. If this were true, of course, it would affect all prisoners in Germany more-or-less equally. So, what was the death rate in POW camps in Germany during the war? > > Turns out it was about 4% 4% ? is this specifically POW camps and not including the internment camps? otheriwse, I’m not following you very well… ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/65 "2013-09-19T03:13:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You’re missing one important number. Holocaust deniers will point out that Germany was losing a war, and the deaths were exacerbated by the destruction of the infrastructure needed to support the camps. If this were true, of course, it would affect all prisoners in Germany more-or-less equally. So, what was the death rate in POW camps in Germany during the war? > > Turns out it was about 4% There are two things to consider, the big killer in the camps was typhus which the Nazis battled continuously. There were typhus epidemics at other camps including Auschwitz during the war. Also tyhpus was a big killer in WW 1, from wiki … “During World War I typhus caused three million deaths in Russia and more in Poland and Romania. Delousing stations were established for troops on the Western front but the disease ravaged the armies of the Eastern front, with over 150,000 dying in Serbia alone. Fatalities were generally between 10 to 40 percent of those infected, and the disease was a major cause of death for those nursing the sick.” By WW II the US used DDT to combat tyhpus but the Nazis did not. DDT effectively ended the scourge of tyhpus in the west. \*Holocaust deniers will point out that Germany was losing a war, and the deaths were exacerbated by the destruction of the infrastructure needed to support the camps. \* This is true. From the USHMM… “During its existence, approximately 50,000 persons died in the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp” and as we have seen 35,000 of these were at the end of the war. \*If this were true, of course, it would affect all prisoners in Germany more-or-less equally. \* I don’t understand this reasoning. Some camps were overcrowded because prisoners from the eastern camps that the Soviets had liberated were transferred west. Also, not all camps had typhus epidemics. In any case I believe the death statistics for the camps in Germany are agreed on by all parties. And well established by documentary evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/66 "2013-09-19T03:20:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You still didn’t answer this question. How many Jews do you think were killed in the Holocaust? 23,456,869,129 . That was just on a Sunday ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/67 "2013-09-19T03:30:21Z")
> [@simster](#): > > 4% ? is this specifically POW camps and not including the internment camps? otheriwse, I’m not following you very well… Yes, specifically the POW camps, as opposed to the internment camps. The point being, if the deaths were caused by a breakdown of German infrastructure, you’d have seen increased mortality in all the camps they administered. But the Germans were able to keep deaths in their POW camps to about the same level as that in Allied camps. It’s only in the internment camps do the Germans suddenly become helpless in the face of wave after wave of typhus attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/68 "2013-09-19T03:32:29Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > There are two things to consider, the big killer in the camps was typhus which the Nazis battled continuously. There were typhus epidemics at other camps including Auschwitz during the war. Also tyhpus was a big killer in WW 1, from wiki … > > “During World War I typhus caused three million deaths in Russia and more in Poland and Romania. Delousing stations were established for troops on the Western front but the disease ravaged the armies of the Eastern front, with over 150,000 dying in Serbia alone. Fatalities were generally between 10 to 40 percent of those infected, and the disease was a major cause of death for those nursing the sick.” > > By WW II the US used DDT to combat tyhpus but the Nazis did not. DDT effectively ended the scourge of tyhpus in the west. Approximately seventy percent of the Jews in German-controlled territory died during the Nazi period. Most of them within a six year period. Are you suggesting that typhus was the primary cause of death? If so, why do you feel it had such a disproportionately high death rate on Jews? Despite the supposed efforts by the Germans to treat it. And the fact that the death rate in WWII was generally lower than the WWI figures you cited. And to repeat my earlier question: Do you feel that Germany was at war with the Jews? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/69 "2013-09-19T03:33:17Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > \*Holocaust deniers will point out that Germany was losing a war, and the deaths were exacerbated by the destruction of the infrastructure needed to support the camps. \* > > This is true. From the USHMM… > > “During its existence, approximately 50,000 persons died in the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp” > > and as we have seen 35,000 of these were at the end of the war. This sort of goal-post shifting is disingenuous, at best. Bergen-Belsen was a concentration camp with a role similar to the camp at Dachau. At various times it held POWs and political prisoners, and was occasionally used as a transit point for Jews and other _Untermenschen_ destined to be sent to the extermination camps. In a discussion of the mass murders, pointing to (relatively) “low” mortality in Bergen-Belsen is nothing more than an attempt to divert discussion away from the actual number of deaths inflicted at the Auschwitz complex, Treblinka, Sobibor, and the other extermination camps. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/70 "2013-09-19T03:34:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes, specifically the POW camps, as opposed to the internment camps. The point being, if the deaths were caused by a breakdown of German infrastructure, you’d have seen increased mortality in all the camps they administered. But the Germans were able to keep deaths in their POW camps to about the same level as that in Allied camps. It’s only in the internment camps do the Germans suddenly become helpless in the face of wave after wave of typhus attacks. Ok - thats what i thought you meant – ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/71 "2013-09-19T03:35:12Z")
To clear up one possible point of confusion, I realize the OP wasn’t directed at me but it did ask how many Jews were killed in the Holocaust. I mentioned a figure of approximately twelve million but this included all Holocaust victims. The number of Jewish victims killed was approximately half that total - around six million. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/72 "2013-09-19T03:35:20Z")
Gotta love the old typhus claims by the deniers: > [@](#): > > n August 1942, during the worst period of the typhus epidemic, the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp had 21,451 male prisoners. [24] The information on the female population is missing. However, it is known that the female population was about 8200 in December 1942. [25] This means, according to denier calculations, that the camp authorities were building enough crematorium capacity in the summer of 1942 to incinerate the entire population of the camp in a month. > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, the nearly 69,000 death certificates available afford researchers the opportunity to see exactly what was killing registered prisoners. It is now known on the basis of these certificates that very few prisoners died from typhus. [32] They show that only 2060 of the 68,864 deaths were from typhus. [source](http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/73 "2013-09-19T04:06:58Z")
can someone explain to me, in simple terms, what the point is in ‘denying’ these events happened on the scale they did? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/74 "2013-09-19T04:07:45Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > I will henceforth stick strictly to the subject. Looking through your posting history which is less than a month old you seem to post almost exclusively with various Jewish conspiracy theories and in past threads went so far to strongly imply that you believed that most American Jews were fanatical Zionists who shouldn’t be trusted? Is there a particular reason why you seem to be so obsessed with the Jews? Not by the way attacking you. I’m honestly asking. Along the same lines, do you think that Hitler was right to distrust the German Jews and suspect that they were more loyal to their fellow Jews than other Germans and that we should take his measures as examples of self-defense? ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/75 "2013-09-19T04:07:45Z")
Typhus is a bloody stupid thing for the deniers to carry on about anyway. If I kidnap someone, lock them in a room and let them starve to death, I don’t think turning up in court with the excuse of “I’m innocent, it was a lack of food that killed them!” would get me very far. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/76 "2013-09-19T04:32:40Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > So, I’ll examine the photographic, the physical, the documentary, and testimonial evidence. Will you. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/77 "2013-09-19T04:44:46Z")
> [@simster](#): > > can someone explain to me, in simple terms, what the point is in ‘denying’ these events happened on the scale they did? For some, it’s an attempt to sweep the shame under the rug. They want the fantasy of a spotless history. This is strange and stupid and absurd. It would be like American revisionists trying to claim that slavery never happened here. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/78 "2013-09-19T04:55:11Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > For some, it’s an attempt to sweep the shame under the rug. They want the fantasy of a spotless history. This is strange and stupid and absurd. It would be like American revisionists trying to claim that slavery never happened here. In Germany? I can see that explanation working, I guess. Except that it’s [illegal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#Germany) to deny the Holocaust in Germany (or have Nazi propaganda, literature, etc) Why does this happen _in the US_? Are the white power groups in Idaho really needing acceptance all of the sudden? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/79 "2013-09-19T05:00:38Z")
> [@simster](#): > > can someone explain to me, in simple terms, what the point is in ‘denying’ these events happened on the scale they did? [ol] [li]Look at the Jews - master manipulators and liars. Hardly any of them died, and with their media control, they’ve duped the entire world into believing them. And/or the Jews used the “Holocaust Narrative” to steal land in the Middle East.[/li][li]Hitler was a good guy, and the Jews are awful human beings as a rule. So Hitler was right to want to exterminate them, but he didn’t actually get around to it and the whole “Holocaust” thing is just a Jewish attempt to tarnish Hitler’s good name. Not that it would’ve been bad if he did exterminate the Jews. It’s just that he didn’t actually try to. [/li][li]Hitler was a great man, and it was only through the awful actions of the jealous European powers, and the perfidious Jews, that Germany fell. We must set the record straight, as the Nazis were good people and it’s wrong that they aren’t well respected. [/li][/ol] I think that’s pretty much the gamut, I’m not sure though… it’s not exactly a rational position to take. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168/80 "2013-09-19T05:13:14Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > Are the white power groups in Idaho really needing acceptance all of the sudden? Odd as it may seem, most folks who aren’t complete sociopaths at some level wants some degree of acceptance. Even Neo-Nazis. They are true believers and they think the world would be much better off if there were more true believers of the right type\*. - You know, good white folks, not filthy mud people or anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-hitler-and-nazi-germanys-attempted-extermination-of-europes-jews/669168.md?page=5)