Questions about ice in drinks

[system]

Originally posted by Irishman:
Finally, for the best cooling with least diluting of your beverage, use one large chunck of ice, not small cubes or crushed ice. Less surface area. More thermal mass.

I would’ve thought it would be impossible to cool a beverage without dilution because the melting of the ice is what is pulling the heat out of the liquid.
Why would making the thermal mass larger cool any quicker without more dilution(melting)?

FixedBack

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.”~~*G.K.Chesterton 1908 *

[Irishman]

If I’m reading PatronAnejo’s chart correctly, it doesn’t seem to add up. At 10°C, the density I read for water is 0.9997 gm/cm3. The reading for ice at -4°C is 0.9174 gm/cm3.

Or are you looking at the phase transition region? At 0°C, the density line goes up to 0.9998 gm/cm3. But I don’t think that’s the density of the ice, that’s the average desity of the mix maybe. The ice’s density is still going to be about 0.917 gm/cm3, but the liquid will have a greater density.

However I do have to back off a little on what I said before. Since posting the previous response, I have noticed the same effect of delayed floating of ice cubes instead of just crushed ice. Since it was not enough to be stuck on the sides of the glass (plastic cup), I have to wonder if PatronAnejo’s answer is right. I notice it typically happens with refrigerated non-carbonated beverage (okay, koolaid) rather than room temp liquid. Hmmm. Scratches head

Originally posted by FixedBack:
I would’ve thought it would be impossible to cool a beverage without dilution because the melting of the ice is what is pulling the heat out of the liquid.
Why would making the thermal mass larger cool any quicker without more dilution(melting)?

There are two actions. One is melting the ice. The other is warming the ice from whatever starting temp to the melting point.

Surface area is important. If you have lots of little bits of ice, then they will all tend to melt simultaneously because they are all exposed to the warm liquid. Also, it doesn’t take much energy to warm them to the melting point. However, if you have a large block, it has a larger percentage of mass trapped inside the surface area, so the liquid is not touching as much of the block. Plus the block has to warm up - so the heat capacitance of the block of ice comes into play. You will get dilution, but less so than using crushed ice.

[system]

** There are two actions. One is melting the ice. The other is warming the ice from whatever starting temp to the melting point.

Surface area is important. If you have lots of little bits of ice, then they will all tend to melt simultaneously because they are all exposed to the warm liquid. Also, it doesn’t take much energy to warm them to the melting point. However, if you have a large block, it has a larger percentage of mass trapped inside the surface area, so the liquid is not touching as much of the block. Plus the block has to warm up - so the heat capacitance of the block of ice comes into play. You will get dilution, but less so than using crushed ice.**

I still can’t buy this explanation. There is just so much heat that can be absorbed in the process of equalizing the temperatures of the liquid and the ice(which is exactly what is happening).
The only difference between a solid chunk of ice and crushed ice would be the speed at which the cooling takes place.
Therefore, if you minimize melting, you also minimize cooling speed. To cool the liquid down to the same temperature would still require the melting of the mass of ice.
The only exception to this would be if you are talking a truly massive ice/liquid ratio, such as a cubic foot of ice cooling 16oz of a liquid.

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FixedBack

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.”~~*G.K.Chesterton 1908 *