# Questions about Japanese language **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 11, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997 "2006-02-11T15:23:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/21 "2006-02-13T02:28:54Z")
You guys have done a good job of explaining why the progressive tense is used. It still seems odd, but I do see some logic to it at least. Still, I don’t know how to respond to, “Suki desu.” If someone says, “Inu ga suki desu (I like dogs),” I believe a simple, “Ore mo (I do too),” would be sensible. But in the statement at hand, it seems like you’d be saying you like yourself. Perhaps just repeating, “Suki desu,” would make sense, but it doesn’t sound right to me. “Anata ga suki desu,” perhaps? I tell you, I’m going to take a class in Japanese if I’m ever able to. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Hokkaido\_Brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d26b3c/32.png) [@Hokkaido\_Brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hokkaido_Brit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/22 "2006-02-13T02:42:00Z")
You should buy the book “Making Out In Japanese”! It’s quite good and a laugh to read - all in romaji so you don’t have to worry about reading the characters. It was written by a Japanese/American couple so its fairly accurate. I would think you might reply something like “Ore mo anata no koto mo suki” but I am not sure of the masculine roughness element that you would want to get into there. For example I think you can say “anta” instead of anata to make it more masculine. But I’m a girl so I’m not sure… To open another can of worms, “Ore” is rough. But my husband says “boku” comes across as really wussy or old mannish if you are not careful! He uses “ore” at work and “watashi” in formal situations. He doesn’t like “boku”. He doesn’t like our boys using “ore” though and will usually tease them if they do. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/23 "2006-02-13T03:24:09Z")
**Caseinpoint** … we gotta talk. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/24 "2006-02-13T05:36:11Z")
> [@Hokkaido Brit](#): > > I would think you might reply something like “Ore mo anata no koto mo suki” but I am not sure of the masculine roughness element that you would want to get into there. For example I think you can say “anta” instead of anata to make it more masculine. But I’m a girl so I’m not sure… No. The best would be to say either “ore mo” or “boku mo” (depending on your thoughts on the “ore / boku” scale). Trying to literally translate English is going to distract from the mood, and could send the wrong message, to boot. In Japanese, both subjects and objects which are understood are dropped much more frequently than in English. For example, if you are visiting a Japanese friend, and there are some cakes there, the friend would never say “anata wa keeki ga ikaga deshou ka?” which would be the direct translation of “Would you like some cake?” Instead, the friend would simple say “ikaga (deshou ka)?” since both the subject “you” and the object “cakes” are understood. If it’s not clear that the friend is referring to cake, he or she could say “keeki ha ikaga” but adding “anata wa” would be unnatural. If two of you are visiting, and the host asks the first person, they would likely then turn and say “Snailboy wa?” and not necessarily repeat the “ikaga.” You can see this with the statement “suki desu” which leaves off both the subject “watashi wa” and the object “anata ga.” Saying “anata ga suki” would be like saying “it is you that I love” which may raise questions of who else is involved. However, since this is situational, there are times when it would work, although you’re better off with a “kimi” rather than “anata”. “anata” is not used nowhere nearly as much in Japanese as “you” in English, but that would be the subject of another thread. Also, what is being implied here is the “you” in terms of the other party and not “you” the person. It happens in English as well. Agreeing with “I love you” by saying “I love me, too” may be a great joke, but it’s up to you to decide if it will help you get laid that night. My girlfriend and I use “aishiteru” all of the time, but that’s because I’m an American and she’s from Taiwan but we speak in Japanese to each other. We also say “suki” or “daisuki” at a much greater frequency than **HokkaidoBrit’s** husband or any other Japanese man that I know. ---
**Author:** ![Hokkaido\_Brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d26b3c/32.png) [@Hokkaido\_Brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hokkaido_Brit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/25 "2006-02-13T06:12:34Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > My girlfriend and I use “aishiteru” all of the time, but that’s because I’m an American and she’s from Taiwan but we speak in Japanese to each other. We also say “suki” or “daisuki” at a much greater frequency than **HokkaidoBrit’s** husband or any other Japanese man that I know. Well, that wouldn’t be difficult, sigh… On the other hand I got home from a conference last night to find about 50 books and random camping gear all over the floor (why??? There is six foot of snow outside our window right now???) and a yellow tulip, red rose and a pink rose in a vase on the kitchen table. One from each of my men. So that’s a few months worth of "Suki desu"s taken care of. Ahhhhh. ---
**Author:** ![Caseinpoint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@Caseinpoint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caseinpoint)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/26 "2006-02-13T12:24:41Z")
But remember that action verbs automatically take ‘ga’; while ‘anata ga suki desu’ can give you the wrong conotation, “anata (or better yet, just the person’s name) no \*\*koto \*\* ga suki desu” is a very nice, if tad cliche, way to say it. Also, be careful about how you use ‘kimi’; since it usually implies that the person to whom you’re speaking is younger than you. The generic rule is that if you wouldn’t feel comfortable calling someone with -chan, you shouldn’t use ‘kimi’ to refer to them. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/27 "2006-02-14T01:15:10Z")
That pretty much covers everything I wanted to know. Hopefully I can take a class or two on Japanese some day, but I’m pretty much covered if I ever get a Japanese girlfriend. (One can only hope…) Thanks. PS: I’m surprised **Hokkaido Brit** ’s husband uses _ore_ at work. I’ve always read that anything less polite than _watashi_ is only used with the closest of friends. I guess one doesn’t have to be quite as formal as I had previously thought, much like the French _tu_ versus _vous_ (singular). ---
**Author:** ![Hokkaido\_Brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d26b3c/32.png) [@Hokkaido\_Brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hokkaido_Brit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/28 "2006-02-14T01:20:58Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > PS: I’m surprised **Hokkaido Brit** ’s husband uses _ore_ at work. I’ve always read that anything less polite than _watashi_ is only used with the closest of friends. I guess one doesn’t have to be quite as formal as I had previously thought, much like the French _tu_ versus _vous_ (singular). Well, I think that’s because he works in an all male very physical environment. When he talks to his superiors or making a speech in a formal setting he will use watashi but when he is just talking to his staff or when he’s working on a job then it’s ore. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/29 "2006-02-14T02:28:51Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > PS: I’m surprised **Hokkaido Brit** ’s husband uses _ore_ at work. I’ve always read that anything less polite than _watashi_ is only used with the closest of friends. I guess one doesn’t have to be quite as formal as I had previously thought, much like the French _tu_ versus _vous_ (singular). (Being a latecomer to the thread, I only get to pick up the crumbs. Great answers, people.) To me also, _aishiteiru_ does sound a little too formal, irrevocable, and over-the-top for everyday use. Another language that has the same kind of distinction is Spanish, where _te amo_ (I love you) sounds a bit like a romance novel, and _te quiero_ (I like/want you) is more common. My serious answer to _suki_ or _daisuki_ from my fiancée is usually, “_boku mo suki da_.” My joke answer might be something like, “_naru hodo_.” She puts up with a lot. About _ore_; like so much in Japanese, it depends on the situation. I’ve heard quite a few guys use _ore_, and I work in an office environment. Others use _watashi_ almost exclusively. My guess, and it’s a guess only, is that some guys use _ore_ with in-group members that they are friendly with. Another friend, who works at a school in the same town, says that his new teachers are extremely formal; they’ve actually used _watakushi_ when speaking to him. I’ve even heard some tomboys using _ore_ occasionally too. I personally don’t like using _ore_, but then again, I use pretty polite Japanese most of the time. I don’t like elided usages and slangy grammar like _anta_ and _tabereru_ either. I sort of like using “proper” Japanese and usually use slang or regionalisms only for joke purposes. Come to think of it, I do pretty much the same thing in my native English. Since my first couple of years here was spent teaching at various different elementary schools in the countryside, I can do a dead-on impersonation of an older woman from the hills. The tea lady was usually past retirement age and almost always wanted to talk between classes. Most of my Japanese friends think it’s hysterical that a 30 year old _gaijin_ guy can talk like a backwoods granny. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/30 "2006-02-14T03:00:38Z")
I’m not sure I saw anybody say it on this thread, but I noticed when living in Japan that people weren’t big on verbal expressions of esteem or affection. When it comes to matters of deep feeling, silence is as effective or more effective than words. If the feeling is really sincere, the reasoning seemed to go, then your actions will more than show it. It’s not so much a language thing as a cultural thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jake4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jake4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake4)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/31 "2006-02-14T03:24:39Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > **Caseinpoint** … we gotta talk. Is this an inside joke for linguists? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Caseinpoint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@Caseinpoint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caseinpoint)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/32 "2006-02-14T05:58:32Z")
Oh geez, **Snailboy** … please, _please_ don’t bring up tu/vous here. 🙂 explaining one language in terms of another is often confusing enough, but the tu/vous structure is actually a huge topic that sociolinguistics like to argue about… suffice to say Japanese doesn’t use tu/vous but Ainu and Yonaguni do, which has a habit of confusing the heck out of historical linguists. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/33 "2006-02-14T08:25:02Z")
> [@Caseinpoint](#): > > But remember that action verbs automatically take ‘ga’; while ‘anata ga suki desu’ can give you the wrong conotation, “anata (or better yet, just the person’s name) no \*\*koto \*\* ga suki desu” is a very nice, if tad cliche, way to say it. I ran this by several of my coworkers and they don’t agree with you. Using “no koto” also adds an implication that there are other involved, or would be used in a “kokuhaku” (a declaration of love with the intention of going out with someone), with the implication that there are other factors, such as that the listener is not expecting a “kokuhaku”. This isn’t a hard and fast rule though, and there are times when it could work. In situations where one is professing love to a partner, “suki da” would be most commonly used. As pointed out, using a person’s name is very common. > [@Caseinpoint](#): > > Also, be careful about how you use ‘kimi’; since it usually implies that the person to whom you’re speaking is younger than you. The generic rule is that if you wouldn’t feel comfortable calling someone with -chan, you shouldn’t use ‘kimi’ to refer to them. Humm. We are talking about young men professing love here, aren’t we? Men would rarely use “kimi” with an adult female in most situations unless they are going out. The mini poll taken at my office approves using a person’s name or “kimi” over “anata” in “XX ga suki da” (Don’t you love being the boss? You get to take samples during work hours.) Since “ore” is being discussed – I use “ore” with my male staff and drinking or golf buddies; “boku” with my female staff, girlfriend and her female friends; and “watakushi” with customers or in other formal situations. ---
**Author:** ![Caseinpoint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@Caseinpoint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caseinpoint)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/34 "2006-02-14T10:24:24Z")
**TokyoPlayer** , both of your points sound right, but you should note that I speak a bit of an eccentric dialect; it sounds as if you’re living in the Kanto region, but since I spend the vast majority of my time in Hokkaido there’re bound to be some idiolectic abnormalities between our language. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/35 "2006-02-14T15:41:27Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > My girlfriend and I use “aishiteru” all of the time, but that’s because I’m an American and she’s from Taiwan but we speak in Japanese to each other. We also say “suki” or “daisuki” at a much greater frequency than **HokkaidoBrit’s** husband or any other Japanese man that I know. I get the impression “aishiteiru” is about the same as an American male saying “oh my darling, I love you with all of my soul” or something similarly overwrought and mushy. I see it all the time but only because I generally only read torrid romances in Japanese. Most real live guys in the US don’t talk like the guys in American romances either. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/36 "2006-02-14T16:27:50Z")
> [@Caseinpoint](#): > > **TokyoPlayer** > [@](#): > > it sounds as if you’re living in the Kanto region Like the name doesn’t give it away? 😉 More so than most languages, Japanese has a lot of “situational dialects” (for lack of a better term). For instance, the aforementioned _anime_, as well as _nampa_ (crudely, “girl-hunting”), certain types of parties, etc. [hijack] By the way, where are all the Kanto people whenever I ask about get-togethers? Not that **Sublight** isn’t great company, but I’m sure he wishes someone else would step up to the plate and help keep me out of trouble on occasion. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/37 "2006-02-14T17:54:16Z")
May I make a point about the usage of _Suki desu_? If the person using the phrase is using it in the sense of _I love you_ and the person addressed understands the phrase in the sense of _I love you_, then the phrase, while literally being _I like you_, nevertheless actually means _I love you_ as that is the way the two individuals involved in the exchange understand the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/38 "2006-02-15T05:25:57Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > Like the name doesn’t give it away? 😉 Or they could look at my “Location” if the name isn’t enough. [hijack]Now that I’m engaged with a baby on the way, should I change my name since I no longer “nampa?”[/hijack] > [@Cerowyn](#): > > [hijack] By the way, where are all the Kanto people whenever I ask about get-togethers? Not that **Sublight** isn’t great company, but I’m sure he wishes someone else would step up to the plate and help keep me out of trouble on occasion. 😃 email me! For the above reasons, I’m not on the board as much as I used to! > [@Monty](#): > > May I make a point about the usage of Suki desu? If the person using the phrase is using it in the sense of I love you and the person addressed understands the phrase in the sense of I love you, then the phrase, while literally being I like you, nevertheless actually means I love you as that is the way the two individuals involved in the exchange understand the phrase. My fiancee (boy that’s a word I’m not used to) doesn’t like getting gushy in public and although I’m not nearly as bad as what **tremorviolet** refers to, I wanted to tell her my feelings from time to time. I suggested that we use the names of major rivers instead, so I’ll look over to her during a party and will say “Amazon” or Missippi" or something. She usually responds by hitting me, so this tactic may require refinement. ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/39 "2006-02-15T05:40:53Z")
Just out of curiousity, and I hope not to hijack the thread with this: I have very little knowledge of Japanese, I only know a good handful of polite phrases, how to apologise for my ignorance and ask to be pointed in the direction of an English-speaker, as well as a few choice “dirty” phrases (but of _course_). This phrase was given to me by a friend who was learning Japanese, and I was told it means “I’m in love with you”: _koishiteru_. Is that what it means, and if so, when is it used? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997/40 "2006-02-15T07:05:02Z")
It does mean to be in love, but it’s not usually used to tell your partner that. It’s more often used to say “He is in love with her.” It can be used for a “kokuhaku” (see previous post" to tell people that you’ve fallen in love with them, but more often someone will say “suki ni natta.” This is, of couse, unless they use this word differently in Hokkaido. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-japanese-language/343997.md?page=3)