# Questions about John Elway **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 25, 2015, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814 "2015-08-25T07:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/1 "2015-08-25T07:45:19Z")
1. Why did Elway get away with refusing to be drafted to the Colts, on the premise that he didn’t want to play for the NFL’s worst team? Isn’t that what you do when you’re drafted #1, assuming no one trades up for the 1st pick? 2. Why did the Colts and the NFL let him get away with it, thus setting a bad precedent? Was Elway just so much of a once in a generation QB that the NFL needed him more than Elway needed the NFL? Was Elway going to the Yankees really that much of a threat? He never talked about going to the USFL as far as I know, so that wasn’t really a factor. 3. Given that Elway did end up getting what he wanted, how come it didn’t actually end up setting a bad precedent? Why did Peyton Manning happily just go to a just as woeful Colts team without a complaint? Why did pretty much all highly touted QBs after Elway just go to the team they were drafted to? 4. As a player, Elways’ legacy is well deserved, but how come the Colts drama didn’t affect Elway’s legacy as a person? Was it that his father seemed to be pulling the strings back then so NFL fans don’t really hold it against John? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/2 "2015-08-25T09:56:11Z")
Evidently, his threat to play for the Yankees instead of be in the NFL was deemed plausible enough by the Colts that they’d rather have their first-round pick available to trade for another asset than have nothing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/3 "2015-08-25T10:03:36Z")
Reported for forum change. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/4 "2015-08-25T10:29:38Z")
Heh. I didn’t think of that, because ever since I first saw a picture of Elway (1989 Super Bowl), I was struck by how much he looked like the QB from _Revenge of the Nerds_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/5 "2015-08-25T12:07:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Heh. I didn’t think of that, because ever since I first saw a picture of Elway (1989 Super Bowl), I was struck by how much he looked like the QB from _Revenge of the Nerds_. 😃 I always thought he looked like the place kicker from _Gus_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/6 "2015-08-25T12:59:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > 1. Why did Elway get away with refusing to be drafted to the Colts He \*was \*drafted by the Colts, but refused to sign. Eventually Baltimore gave in and traded his rights to Denver for Chris Hinton, Mark Herrmann, and Denver’s next year’s #1 pick. > [@](#): > > 1. Why did the Colts and the NFL let him get away with it No leverage. You can’t force someone to sign a contract and play for you. > [@](#): > > 1. Given that Elway did end up getting what he wanted, how come it didn’t actually end up setting a bad precedent? Why did Peyton Manning happily just go to a just as woeful Colts team without a complaint? Different set of people in charge there, even the there was different (Indy vs. Bawmer). It wasn’t a hopeless situation. > [@](#): > > Why did pretty much all highly touted QBs after Elway just go to the team they were drafted to? The league has a rookie pay scale in place now (slotted by draft position), among other things. And few other players have plausible leverage to force a trade - all they can do is sit out and forego the money for a year. > [@](#): > > 1. As a player, Elways’ legacy is well deserved, but how come the Colts drama didn’t affect Elway’s legacy as a person? The Colts really did suck. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/7 "2015-08-25T13:16:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Colts really did suck. And because Elway is just such a nice guy, too. If he’d been an a-hole, the draft thing \*would \*be one of the reasons people would give for hating him. But nobody hates him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/8 "2015-08-25T13:35:13Z")
You’re not drafted into the NFL the way you’re drafted into the army. You have the right to not go. The pressure the NFL puts on rookies is that only one football team will offer you a contract. It’s virtually impossible for somebody to turn down a million dollar contract when the alternative is going out to look for a regular job. So people sign the contract. But Elway had a plausible alternative; he was being offered a valuable contract with a baseball team as well. So he had leverage that most rookies don’t have. I’m sure Elway could have gotten a spot in the USFL if he had wanted. But that league folded in three years. The Yankees were a more solid offer. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/9 "2015-08-25T13:47:10Z")
This sort of thing happens in other sports too. Eric Lindros refused to sign qith the Quebec Nordiques, so they traded him to Philadelphia for a package of players. Many, many baseball players have declined to sign after being drafted and played another year of amateur ball and were drafted again. Elway’s “I’ll play baseball” threat has of course actually been exercised by other players, too. Dave Winfield was drafted into the NFL but chose a baseball career, which worked out pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/10 "2015-08-25T14:06:37Z")
Eli Manning basically did the same thing. He made it clear that he wasn’t going to sign with San Diego. I think he caught some flak at the time, but it went away. I wonder if the Chargers hadn’t gotten such a big return from the Giants (Rivers, Merriman) if bad feelings would have persisted. But NFL players hold out all the time. And I don’t really hold it against them because they have the weakest players’ union by far. Seriously, non-guaranteed contracts? At least MLB and NBA teams honor their contracts, which yes, means that teams end up eating lots of money in bad decisions. MLB players have done similar things to Elway/Manning, like JD Drew playing in the Independent League to avoid playing for the Phillies. His dispute was money related, though. Drew got a bad reception in Philly, but that also blew over pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/11 "2015-08-25T14:10:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This sort of thing happens in other sports too. Eric Lindros refused to sign qith the Quebec Nordiques, so they traded him to Philadelphia for a package of players. Many, many baseball players have declined to sign after being drafted and played another year of amateur ball and were drafted again. > > Elway’s “I’ll play baseball” threat has of course actually been exercised by other players, too. Dave Winfield was drafted into the NFL but chose a baseball career, which worked out pretty well. Winfield didn’t play college football so I don’t think he was seriously considering the NFL. He was also drafted by the NBA and ABA, making him one of two athletes ever drafted by 4 professional sports leagues. The other was Mickey McCarty. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/12 "2015-08-25T14:40:03Z")
The ESPN 30 for 30 _Elway To Marino_ has some interesting background on this. Elway’s agent had made it clear to the Colts before the draft that he wasn’t going to play for them and they needed to trade the pick. There was some talk (Dan Fouts to the Colts and Elway to San Diego?), but in the end the rest of the NFL was happy to see a poorly run Colts franchise screw themselves over. It’s a great documentary about that year’s draft, by the way. I highly recommend it. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And because Elway is just such a nice guy, too. If he’d been an a-hole, the draft thing \*would \*be one of the reasons people would give for hating him. But nobody hates him. In the documentary, an older and wiser Elway admits he was pretty much a spoiled brat coming out of college, and you can see some evidence of that. But yeah, as time went on he revealed himself as a pretty nice, likeable guy. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/13 "2015-08-25T15:07:27Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > In the documentary, an older and wiser Elway admits he was pretty much a spoiled brat coming out of college, and you can see some evidence of that. But yeah, as time went on he revealed himself as a pretty nice, likeable guy. I think some aren’t remembering how he was viewed at the time. I know I thought he was a spoiled brat. He did not have a good reputation early in his career partially because of how he started it. But when you are talking about legacy the rest of his career eclipsed his holding out against the Colts by quite a bit. It’s basically a footnote. If he never won a Super Bowl maybe it would be more important. Same with Eli. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/14 "2015-08-25T15:17:03Z")
Here is what Wiki has to say about Elway’s potential baseball career: > **[John Elway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Elway)** > > John Albert Elway Jr. (born June 28, 1960) is an American former professional football quarterback who spent his entire 16-year career with the Denver Broncos of the National Football League (NFL). Following his playing career, he then spent 11 years with the Broncos in various front office positions, eventually being promoted to general manager. Elway, along with former backup quarterback and head coach Gary Kubiak, are the only individuals to be associated with all three of the Broncos' Sup... > [@](#): > > Elway also excelled as a baseball player. He was selected by the New York Yankees in the second round of the 1981 MLB Draft (52nd overall, six spots ahead of future Hall of Famer Tony Gwynn), and received $150,000 for playing for the Yankees’ short season affiliate Oneonta Yankees in the New York–Penn League in the summer of 1982.[17] Yankees scout Gary Hughes believed that had Elway concentrated on baseball “the sky was the limit … he would’ve been off the charts”. Yankees owner George Steinbrenner—who aggressively sought Elway’s services—reportedly planned to make him the Yankees’ starting right fielder by 1985, which Elway—aware of Steinbrenner’s opinion—later described as “a tremendous [and] exciting thought”.[18] He played right field and pitched for Stanford, finishing his senior year hitting .361 with nine home runs and 50 RBIs in 49 games and a 5–4 record with a 4.51 ERA.[citation needed] So the threat of him actually jumping to baseball was very very real. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/15 "2015-08-25T16:26:07Z")
Elway was definitely a good enough baseball player to get a real shot in MLB. A 2nd round pick is HIGH. And it was the Yankees, who have bottomless pockets. He would have been given a lot of money and every opportunity to play for the Yankees. But he was a great QB. 1st overall pick great. And he was everything he was advertised and then some during his HOF career. Actually, Bo Jackson did the same thing, but things worked out differently. He told Tampa Bay not to draft him number 1, and they did anyway. Jackson said “told you not to do that” and signed with the Royals. He never signed with the Bucs, and entered the following year’s draft and was famously taken by Al Davis in the 7th round. The rest, well… Only Bo Know. I remember that draft and Elway was the consensus number 1 QB. And I have always wondered if his refusal to sign in Baltimore eventually cost that city the Colts. I know it wasn’t directly causal, but if he plays in Baltimore, the Colts may have been better, and might have been able to parlay that into a new stadium. I am pretty sure old Colts fans still hate Elway, but other than that, no one seems to be annoyed by him. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/16 "2015-08-25T16:48:09Z")
[Kelly Stouffer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Stouffer) was a quarterback drafted in the first round by the Cardinals in 1987. He really, really didn’t want to sign with the Cardinals and sat out the entire 1987 season. Finally, just before the 1988 draft, when their rights to Stauffer would have expired, the Cardinals traded him to the Seahawks for future picks. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/17 "2015-08-25T17:17:37Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Winfield didn’t play college football so I don’t think he was seriously considering the NFL. He was also drafted by the NBA and ABA, making him one of two athletes ever drafted by 4 professional sports leagues. The other was Mickey McCarty. Dave Logan of the Cleveland Browns (1970’s) played Basketball and Football for the U of Colorado and was drafted by the NBA and NFL. He was also drafted by MLB out of High School, so he makes three. Coincidentally, he works for Elway now as the play-by-play man for the Denver Broncos. He also played with Elway in 1984 in his last NFL season. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/18 "2015-08-25T17:56:58Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Elway was definitely a good enough baseball player to get a real shot in MLB. A 2nd round pick is HIGH. Especially for somebody who was everyone figured (correctly) would ultimately end up playing football. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Tof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tof)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/19 "2015-09-02T07:57:18Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Eli Manning basically did the same thing. He made it clear that he wasn’t going to sign with San Diego. I think he caught some flak at the time, but it went away. I wonder if the Chargers hadn’t gotten such a big return from the Giants (Rivers, Merriman) if bad feelings would have persisted. As a Charger fan, I should be over it… but mention of Eli’s name fills me with a white hot rage. In fact… logically… I really love Rivers. Despite the fortune in Super Bowls (Rivers got Marty’d then Norv’d. We’ve had some knuckleheaded plays in the playoffs that were beyond Rivers control) I don’t think Eli is or ever was the better QB; so the whole thing theoretically, playerwise, worked out for us. But everytime I picture him standing on the podium with the Charger jersey, looking like he wanted to vomit, I want to punch him right in the face. And everytime I see him on the field, that is what I see, and I just can’t help myself but want to see him get sacked over and over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814/20 "2015-09-02T10:00:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > 1. Why did Elway get away with refusing to be drafted to the Colts, on the premise that he didn’t want to play for the NFL’s worst team? Isn’t that what you do when you’re drafted #1, assuming no one trades up for the 1st pick? It wasn’t the Colts were bad, it was that the franchise was nuclear disaster area. Elway didn’t like the head coach, Frank Kush, who apparently had a reputation as an overly harsh martinet. More importantly, though, the owner was a belligerent and unstable alcoholic. [This article](http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10718294/jim-irsay-father-son) gives some idea: > [@](#): > > “And other times he was just brutal. He’d have a relationship with a contractor, and when that contractor was in a lot of trouble and needed money, that was when Bob would not pay him. He’d say, ‘This guy’s going to go under, why should I pay him?’ And then the guy would go under.” > > … > > Irsay went through seven coaches in 10 years. He fired Howard Schnellenberger after an 0-3 start in 1974 – it wasn’t even October yet – and replaced him with Thomas. Irsay was impatient and emotional. He would call in plays from the owner’s box and belittle players in front of their teammates. > > One of Irsay’s regular targets was Marty Domres, a quarterback for the Colts from 1972 to '75. In a heated exchange in Atlanta, Irsay coldly told Domres that it would be nice if he could complete passes to his teammates, not the opponents. Domres fired back. The argument was eventually broken up by a couple of teammates, but not before Domres told his owner, “You don’t know if the football is blown up or stuffed.” > > Irsay went on an epic rant after a bad game in Detroit in 1976 – an exhibition game. It was so venomous that coach Ted Marchibroda quit, with the season opener just ahead, and came back only after a team protest. > > “Logic didn’t have anything to do with the decisions he made,” Domres says. “It was more emotional, or driven by alcohol in some instances, I assume.” > > … > > A common belief in the Colts organization was that if you needed something done, you had to get Bob Irsay before noon, before the cocktails started … If Bob was doing business in the afternoon, he was usually surly. And he often wouldn’t remember what happened by the next day. > [@adaher](#): > > 1. Why did the Colts and the NFL let him get away with it, thus setting a bad precedent? Well, what was the alternative? Collude to have him blackballed? > [@](#): > > 1. As a player, Elways’ legacy is well deserved, but how come the Colts drama didn’t affect Elway’s legacy as a person? The same reasons almost no one (outside of San Diego) cares about Eli doing it anymore: One, the rest of his career overshadowed the draft so it became just a footnote, and two, he didn’t actually do anything wrong. Elway, like every other man in America, wanted to have a say in where he was employed and whom he worked with, and, unlike most other pro football players, he was in a position to make that happen. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-john-elway/728814.md?page=2)