# Questions about Noah's meat **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 17, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671 "2004-02-17T16:03:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FabioClone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5f8ce5/32.png) [@FabioClone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FabioClone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/1 "2004-02-17T16:03:27Z")
This [staff column](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/madamvegan.html) raises some more questions for me. According to this, God gave Noah permission to eat animals right after disembarking from the ark. Now supposedly there were only two of each species left on Earth, right? That strikes me as a particularly bad time to become a carnivore. Noah would have had to wait several generations before he could eat a member of a species without severely endangering it’s existence. Furthermore, if I remember the story correctly, the first thing Noah did after getting off the ark was to sacrifice an animal to God. Was this the end of that kind of animal? Is this what _really_ happened to the dinosaurs? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/2 "2004-02-17T16:09:39Z")
Actually, according to Genesis, there were seven (or seven pairs) of each kosher animal. And since only kosher animals were offered as sacrifices, it wasn’t as bad a problem as you might have thought. (Dinosaurs indeed…) Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![FabioClone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5f8ce5/32.png) [@FabioClone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FabioClone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/3 "2004-02-17T16:31:12Z")
Ah, I just read the story again and found my mistake. However, as with most bible stories, it also brought up even more questions. Like were birds considered kosher? Noah releases a dove that flies away, never to return. Assuming Noah still has its mate in the ark, what are the odds of them finding each other again? I guess we’re just supposed to accept that God intervenes in the sex life of His creations. And the dinosaur thing was a joke. I just found the mental picture of Noah munching on bronto-burgers to be hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/4 "2004-02-18T05:15:02Z")
Doves are kosher birds and are acceptable for sacrifices (see Leviticus). I guess I knew that you were joking about the dinosaurs. One of my favorite moments in Fantasia 2000 is when you see the dragon, unicorn and other similar beasts laughing at Noah… Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/5 "2004-02-18T06:53:50Z")
I’ve been teaching Sunday School to first-graders for 11 years now, and every year when we study the unit on “Noah”, the curriculum blandly continues to ignore the issue of “what the carnivores on the Ark ate”. The teacher’s book goes into happy detail about the herbivores–“Ask the children if they know what elephants eat (hay), and have them guess how much hay Noah would have had to bring for the elephants…”–but the subject of “how many rabbits would Noah have needed to bring along to throw to the wolves” is somehow completely glossed over. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/6 "2004-02-18T07:25:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Ask the children if they know what elephants eat (hay) Even that is awfully simplified. Elephants will eat pretty much anything in the vegetable kingdom. In the wild, they eat bark, foliage, and various grasses, but in captivity, they also eat bread, potatoes, rice, and most human-style fruits and vegetables (from what I’ve heard, pumpkins are their favorite). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Arctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71c47a/32.png) [@Tom\_Arctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Arctus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/7 "2004-02-18T14:27:52Z")
> [@Duck Duck Goose](#): > > . . . the subject of “how many rabbits would Noah have needed to bring along to throw to the wolves” is somehow completely glossed over. Read the answer again. Antedelugian wolves, and lions and tigers and bears, were all exclusively herbivores 'cause God hadn’t permitted them to eat meat yet. And if you buy that I have an exciting investment opportunity in cold fusion for you . . . ---
**Author:** ![Pop1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5fc32e/32.png) [@Pop1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pop1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/8 "2004-02-18T16:31:13Z")
> [@Tom Arctus](#): > > Read the answer again. Antedelugian wolves, and lions and tigers and bears, were all exclusively herbivores 'cause God hadn’t permitted them to eat meat yet. So, you’re saying that the landing site of the Ark suddenly became a carnivorous free-for-all as half the animal population suddenly got a hankerin’ for the flesh of the other half? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/9 "2004-02-19T13:53:03Z")
You can just see in your mind what The Far Side would have done with that image… ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/10 "2004-02-20T19:23:20Z")
**zev\_steinhardt** : > [@](#): > > Actually, according to Genesis, there were seven (or seven pairs) of each kosher animal. Depends on which verses/sources in Genesis you read. If you accept the thesis that Genesis (along with the rest of the Torah) is a work compiled from multiple original sources, and accept the conventional wisdom about those sources, the “P” document describes Noah as taking two, not seven, of every animal, clean and unclean alike: \*\*P Document Verses: > [@](#): > > 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. > > 6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive. > > 6:21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them. > > 6:22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he. > > 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, > > 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. \*\* In contrast, the “J” document verses has Noah taking seven of each of the clean animals, and it is in J, not P, that a sacrifice is described later on: \*\*J Document Verses: > [@](#): > > 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. > > 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. > > 7:3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. > > {…} > > 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. > > 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. > > 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. \*\* It’s one of the more commonly cited examples of the mingling of two ancient texts to create the Torah. (J = dove, P = raven; J=LORD {=YHWH, actually}, P =God {Elohim}; etc.) ---
**Author:** ![FabioClone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5f8ce5/32.png) [@FabioClone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FabioClone)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/11 "2004-02-20T21:07:26Z")
One more question: How was Noah supposed to know which animals were clean and which were unclean? There’s nothing in the story about it, and the specific kosher laws weren’t created until many years later (after the exodus, I believe). Was there a Jewish cultural tradition on kosher foods that predated the laws in Leviticus? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/12 "2004-02-20T21:42:46Z")
All of that “everyone was a vegetarian until the ark landed” business is false testimony straight from the devil! We know this because of the Far Side cartoon where a couple of lions (or whatever they were) have killed, and are eating, the unicorns, thus irritating Noah and causing him to restrict all carnivores to “C” deck. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/13 "2004-02-22T19:11:00Z")
FabioClone: > [@](#): > > How was Noah supposed to know which animals were clean and which were unclean? There’s nothing in the story about it, and the specific kosher laws weren’t created until many years later (after the exodus, I believe). Was there a Jewish cultural tradition on kosher foods that predated the laws in Leviticus? The Leviticus tradition relates to what animals one may eat as food - something that Noah wouldn’t have been allowed to do prior to the flood, as per the Staff Report. Jewish tradition indicates that since the time of Adam, there was an understanding of which animals were acceptable as sacrifices (Abel sacrificed a sheep, you might recall) - that’s the context of “clean” for Noah. Basically, cattle, sheep, goats, and birds of the dove family. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/14 "2004-02-22T19:33:52Z")
> [@Tom Arctus](#): > > Antedelugian wolves, and lions and tigers and bears, were all exclusively herbivores 'cause God hadn’t permitted them to eat meat yet. And if you buy that I have an exciting investment opportunity in cold fusion for you . . . And, according to the Torah, the rainbow didn’t exist before the flood, either. And I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to add to your investment offers. ---
**Author:** ![FabioClone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5f8ce5/32.png) [@FabioClone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FabioClone)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/15 "2004-02-22T19:46:05Z")
Thanks to **zev\_steinhardt** and **cmkeller** for answering my questions. This is the kind of stuff they gloss over in church. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/16 "2004-02-22T20:03:18Z")
[Emily Litella] _Questions about **Noah’s meat?** _ I never heard of such a thing! Young man, that’s a terrible way to treat one of our most revered patriarchs! Why do you need to know about Noah’s private parts? The Bible cannot be trifled with! Shame! Shame! Why I oughta… Oh? It’s not? Never mind. 🙂 [/Emily Litella] ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2004, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-noahs-meat/229671/17 "2004-02-23T07:25:51Z")
Well, if you really want to know about Noah’s meat, you could ask the aptly-named [Ham](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GEN+9:20-22&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on).