questions about other countries that you've never gotten a straight answer to

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
101

To amplify ** Rex Fenestrarum**'s post:

Local doesn’t even begin to describe American education. According to the National School Boards Association

Yes, you read that correclty, there are just shy of 15,000 school boards nationally. Each operates a school district, which in most places is legally an autonomous local government unit that’s administratively independent of the town(s) in which it is located. School districts range from the enormous - New York City’s with over a million students, is the largest - to districts so tiny they don’t even have high schools, so they enter into cooperative agreements with other school districts that do. For example, one of my subscribers is an official of Igo-Ono Elementary in Shasta County, California (I had to call them just to hear how it’s pronounced: Yup, it’s “I go ‘Oh no!’”). It’s one of the two schools that comprise the Igo-Ono-Platina Elementary School District - and now, Dopers, raise your hand if you think you know the name of the other school! Good, I just knew you could!

Total district population: about 100 students. But this is its own school board, and like every other it jealously guards its prerogatives. Most are elected and care only about their own elections, not the opinions of other local officials, like mayors, who usually don’t have any influence over their budgets. (New York City recently became an exception to this rule - the mayor now directly controls the board.)

Moral: there’s nothing uniform about American education. I know of districts that still have K-8 elementary schools (the old model, typical before WWII). I know others that have K-2, 3-5, 6-8 and 9-12, and I don’t know what they call the two elementary-level schools.

Now, here’s where educators should probably jump in - I’m a lawyer who edits a newsletter on federal education law, so my knowledge of this is second-hand. But here’s what I’ve been able to glean.

One of the big controversies in k-12 ed circles is what to do with the middle years. Before world war II, the elementary school model was pretty standard, under which even up through grade 8 kids would largely continue with one teacher for most of the day, covering everything. In the 50s and 60s, the junior high school movement came full blast, which treated the 12-14 year olds (7-9th graders) as miniature high school students - in other words, they would change teachers for each subject, and often could take elective courses. This is the system that my district used when I was the right age, in the early 80s.

Trouble is, 12 and 13 year olds may not be ready for that amount of change during a day (I’m not convinced that older teens are, either, but that’s a different matter). So schools keep tinkering, and moved to a middle school concept that’s more differentiated from high schools.

Along with that reform, there’s the question of where physically to put 14-year-olds (9th graders). In many states, 9th grade counts as high school and certainly some kids need the variety of classes high schools can offer. But socially it’s not necessarily a good idea to put 14 year olds in the same building as 17 and 18 year olds, so schools are left with a conundrum. A year or two after I graduated high school in 1986, my district changed all schools onto the 6-8 middle/9-12 high school model. I think some sort of highfalutin theory was bandied about, but people knew the real reason: the district had extra space in high school buildings and a shortage of what were then called junior highs (now middle schools - yes, they changed all the signs) and elementaries.

Does that help :D?

102

Okay, here is the definitive answer to the aboot thing, from Montreal linguistics boy who took dialectology last semester.

One of the most fluid things in English dialects is the vowel system. Among other distinguishing factors between Canadian English and a number of American dialects is Canadian Raising. What this means is that in diphthongs like “about” /@bawt/ and “write” /rajt/ where the diphthong is followed by a voiceless consonant such as t, k, or p, the vowel is raised, i.e. the tongue lifts in the mouth.

So we get pairs like ride /rajd/->[rajd], but write /rajt/ -> [r^jt], where ^ is a sound like “uh”, so it ends up being sort of “wruyt”, more or less.

Similarly with about; the diphthong in “bowed”, being before a voiced consonant, does not change (/bawd/ -> [bawd]) - you’ll notice Canadians are never accused of pronouncing it “booed.” But in about, it changes (/@bawt/ -> [@b^wt]). This is sort of “abuhwt”, if you want.

Of course, since American vowel systems, especially Southern ones, have their /aw/ phone so far removed from Canadian [^w] in the vowel space ( it can even be almost as far as [æ], like “pat”,) they interpret [^w] as being [uw], as in boot. Here’s the relevant vowel space:




         [^]  [^w]    
                     [uw]
         [a]   /aw/
               
         [æ]  [æw]

…more or less.

You can see how since [^w] is closer to [uw] than it is to [æ], since /uw/ is a phoneme, it tends to get mashed into that phoneme and you hear it as “aboot.”

(Similarly, the /E/ phoneme, as in “bed,” is moving down in southern Ontario English, so that I end up hearing their “bed” as “bad,” since it’s gotten so close to /æ/. At the same time, their /æ/ has moved up and away, towards [a].)

As mentioned, Canadians have different strengths of Canadian raising, and many areas of the States, such as the midwest, show Canadian raising to varying degrees, particularly on /aj/. It’s especially strong in the Maritimes and Newfoundland; of course, Newfoundland English is a substantially different dialect from Canadian English.

Hope you enjoyed. And don’t go giving us any lip - I could tell you stuff about American vowel diasystems that could curl your hair.

103

Americans…What on earth is a grit and why would you want to eat it ?

104

It’s “grits”. I’m not exactly sure what it is, but it tastes pretty darn good with cinnamon and sugar.

105

Grits are made from corn. It’s sort of like Cream of Wheat, but corn-based. I’m a Yankee but I learned to enjoy grits during vacations in South Carolina. It’s also good with butter & salt (think popcorn) or with butter & syrup.

106

I desire some leeway on one topic from the rest of the world.

I am fully aware that American Football is not “real” football. However, we have no other name to call this sport. It has been, simply, football for a century or more to us in America.

While “soccer” is gaining popularity here in the States, it is a far cry away from the status the National Football League has attained.

I have tried to compromise in this situation. I try to use the term “American Football” whenever possible. However, in order to distinguish, I need to use the misnomer “European Football” as well. Unfortunately, when talking to people from the States, they think I am referring to the NFL Europe.

I can’t do anything more. Please help. Soccer is as good a word as any…

107

Quite right. Football is Rugby League. What you call football is otherwise known as Gridiron.

Grits are a coarse porridge made with corn rather than oats.

108

matt_mcl, I read your post above. I read the whole thing. It was very impressive and had a lot of fluids and thongs (well dipthongs) and stuff in it. Not to mention Candadians raising. Works for me.

We’re probably on the same side here linguistically too, but I got some technical problems…

I understand what all of the words you used mean.

I have no freakin’ idea what those words in that order mean.

It’s an Ottawa Valley accent and saying you can identify a Canadian because he says “Aboot” is like saying you can identify an American because he says “Y’awl gawt a purrdy mouf.”

It’s probably correct, but it misses the point.

All drugs are chemicals, but not all chemicals are drugs.

109

BTW, Candadians are a typo, and I wasn’t arguing with matt.

110

I think that there is some truth to the idea that mothers are using their children in pageants to boister there own esteem. When I was a child, they were called “beauty reviews.” Usually each school had a beauty review for kids 6-9 and one for kids 14-18. It was generally understood that children were hideous from the age of 10-13. The reviews for the youngsters were for both boys and girls. The winners were crowned King and Queen and the runners-up were First Maid, Second Maid, First Page and Second Page.

At some point it started getting out of hand with frillier dresses and makeup. Some folks figured out a way to make money off of these pageants by charging entrance fees. Now they make up a title like “Little Miss Supreme Goddess of the Cumberland Gap,” and hold the pageant in a hotel.

While the rest of the universe is catching onto the idea that there is more to life than physical beauty, these parents are teaching their children just the opposite. Very often there is no concern shown for the feelings of the child by the parents. Costumes cost hundreds of dollars.

I consider it emotional child abuse.

111

Which countries in Europe are have the most relaxed emmigration laws? Denmark and Sweden are not on the list. How about Norway? Scotland? Others?

112

Sorry to post three in a row, but I forgot to add this:

Have any of you non-Americans had cornbread? It is a staple in the South.

113

mmmmmmmmmmmmm porridge…but with corn!? No, no corn is for fritters but thank you at least I have a mental image of grits now…previously all i could invisage was what the Canary needed to keep it regular.

Rugby is of course the real football but Soccer will do for the kicking sort. Rugby League is the other real football and American Football is exactly what is says it is.

Now the mystery of grits is solved anyone care to explain pumpkin pie. Personally I have only experienced pumpkin as roasted (yummmmmm) or mashed (yuck!) how it gets in a pie is beyond me. Is pumpkin pie a sweet or savoury dish? It always sounds suspicously sweet on American tv programmes but I can’t imagine how…please help.

114

Well, since you offered, the Indian movies I’ve seen all seem to have the characters break into song (songs that are usually completely unconnected to the plot) every fifteen minutes or so. Is there some bizarre industry regulation that requires this, or is it just something that local audiences like? Is it a recent trend?

115

I’d call pumpkin pie, at least as I’ve had it, savoury. It has a custard-like mouth filling texture, but the main taste is of spices.

Of course, this is based on what started out as canned pumpkin pie filling, so I really couldn’t claim to be an expert.

As for the “football” question, I think Mr. Giles had a point when he snickered at it and said it seemed effeminate because really, putting on 40 pounds of protective equipment just to play rugby?

Real men play hurley.

Which, I suppose, leads me to my international question: what the hell makes anyone want to play hurley? I have reservations about a game where the players on a televised match go to the bench and, seeing that the medics are busy, rummage through the first aid kit, find a suture set, stitch up their own foreheads, and dive right back into play.

116

Okay, what about suet? What the hell is that all about?

117

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 2trew *
**I’d call pumpkin pie, at least as I’ve had it, savoury. It has a custard-like mouth filling texture, but the main taste is of spices.[B\][\QUOTE]

Savoury custard??!! ICK!

[QUOTE/]
Real men play hurley.

Which, I suppose, leads me to my international question: what the hell makes anyone want to play hurley? I have reservations about a game where the players on a televised match go to the bench and, seeing that the medics are busy, rummage through the first aid kit, find a suture set, stitch up their own foreheads, and dive right back into play. **

[QUOTE]

What is Hurley? and they sew up their own injuries?:eek: hmmmmmmmm what some people do for fun!

2rtew I always thought you were an Ozzie…I don’t know why now, maybe it was the slipper thing :slight_smile:

118

Bugger…I wish I knew how to code.

119

Pumpkin pie is good despite the description, hurley’s an Irish game that resembles a combination of lacrosse and assault with intent, I’m a Canadian, and I don’t know where my slippers came from.

They’re really cute, though.

120

Pumpkin Pie - Take your mashed pumpkin add allspice, put in pie shell and bake.

Grits is a southern thing made from corn, the process of corn to grits escapes me. Southern grits are eaten with salt, pepper and butter and sometimes red-eye gravy. I get in trouble when I put butter and sugar on mine, I’m accused of being a yankie.

Cornbread/corn pone/corn fritter - southern again, cornmeal cooked in hot grease usually but not always in a molded form.

About/aboot - I dated a guy who grew up near Richmond, Virginia and picked up some of his accent, he said ‘aboot’ and ‘daug’ for dog (the ‘o’ sound is like the ‘o’ in odd).
My sisters always said I talked funny because I didn’t have the same accent they had though my accent does return when I cross back into N.C. or when I get around large numbers of folk with southern or country accents (so I try to stick to the city).

There are child pageants (creepy) in the south, don’t know that they started there but I wouldn’t rule it out.

England has what we call cookies (saw them in the food court at Harrods) but I can’t remember what they are called.

England has great beer and great Chinese food and love the fish and chips but what we call baked beans for breakfast???

I can balance peas on a fork.

Football is american, futbol or soccer is european soccer. (Europeans playing football, EFL, just seems wrong, stick to the original)

Did I miss anything?