# Questions About Practical vs. CGI FX **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 21, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582 "2016-08-21T23:25:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/1 "2016-08-21T23:25:49Z")
Been watching old live-action “superhero” TV shows from the '70’s and early '80’s and I’m now wondering about some of the effects. For example, when showing The Hero bending metal bars/guns/peeling the door off a safe or otherwise bending metal like taffy how did they do that? Some sort of clay or plastic or putty? That’s really what I’m curious about - how do they do something like having Superman (or the equivalent) twist a “metal” gun into a pretzel shape even halfway convincingly? When the hero picks someone up and carries them was it all the muscle power of the actor playing the hero, or were there some ways to assist in lifting another person? Wouldn’t want the star to throw out his back, right? Probably varies somewhat - Teri Hatcher is a skinny little thing, Dean Cain probably could pick her up and carry her without too much trouble in _Lois and Clark_ but when Steve Austin picks an adult man up in a fireman’s carry that’s a slightly different prospect, and a bit more weight. I’m pretty sure people slinging huge boulders around are really throwing hunks of styrofoam Likewise, big chunks of timber/wood could be balsa or some other very lightweight wood. Or sculpted styrofoam. Mighty leaps/launches into flight were springboards and the like. And artful cutting to a bluescreen/greenscreen/whatevercolorscreen shot. Figured out how they did some other effects thanks to a high resolution big screen TV. There’s stuff that you could get away with on a small screen that show up really, really well on a big one. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/2 "2016-08-21T23:51:53Z")
**Moderator Action** Since this is about the art of TV and film production and how they do their stuff behind the scenes, let’s move it over to Cafe Society. Moving thread from General Questions to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/3 "2016-08-21T23:58:11Z")
It does depend on what era you’re talking about. Back in the 50s the “iron bars” Superman bent were probably made of rubber-coated wire. Other feats of strength were shown by making fakes. The door of the safe was probably wood or other light material and the hinges made to break away. Superman did indeed jump off a springboard onto a mattress. Flying involved him lying on his stomach on a thin board while the background was back projected (most of the flying shots showed him from the side). He’d “land” by jumping into the scene. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/4 "2016-08-22T00:03:54Z")
What I always liked about the old Superman show was that if the bad guys shot their guns at the Man of Steel, he just stood there with his hands on his hips and took the shots, no biggie. But when the bad guys ran out of bullets and threw the gun at him, Superman ducked. 😛 Anyway, sometimes the special effects weren’t actually effects. According to IMDB, the introduction of the Hulk (the 1970s version) showed Lou Ferrigno picking up a car. There was supposed to be a cable helping Lou pick up the car, but the cable broke. It was 4 am, Lou was cold and tired from doing a lot of filming, so rather than wait for the special effects guys to fix the cable, the tired and frustrated Lou just lifted the car himself. To be fair, he was a world class body builder and was a pretty strong guy. Likewise, this is modern and not the 70s, but on Game of Thrones, the Mountain is currently played by Icelandic strongman Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson, who is 6’9" tall, weighs 400 lbs, and tends to place highly in a lot of European strong-man competitions. Having someone that big and strong reduces the need for special effects. You want him to lift a guy up, he just lifts the guy up. I poked around on google for a bit but I didn’t find anything authoritative on what the bendable guns and iron bars were made out of. I would be really surprised if it wasn’t some type of clay or putty though. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/5 "2016-08-22T03:13:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > When the hero picks someone up and carries them was it all the muscle power of the actor playing the hero, or were there some ways to assist in lifting another person? Wouldn’t want the star to throw out his back, right? Probably varies somewhat - Teri Hatcher is a skinny little thing, Dean Cain probably could pick her up and carry her without too much trouble in _Lois and Clark_ but when Steve Austin picks an adult man up in a fireman’s carry that’s a slightly different prospect, and a bit more weight. I remember hearing, I think in one of the DVD special features, that during the shooting of _The Princess Bride_ Andre the Giant was suffering from back problems serious enough that he could not easily carry Robin Wright even though she was quite slim and he was…a giant. IIRC for some scenes she was actually being supported by the sort of harness they use for “flying” effects. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/6 "2016-08-22T05:09:09Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > I poked around on google for a bit but I didn’t find anything authoritative on what the bendable guns and iron bars were made out of. I would be really surprised if it wasn’t some type of clay or putty though. I can’t see using clay or putty. The stuff is too likely to tear or collapse under its own weight, plus, it’s going to be malleable where the actor grabs it. I can see using a rubber or foam-coated thin piece of metal. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/7 "2016-08-22T07:15:51Z")
They still use some of these old-school techniques today, they just augment them with CGI to help sell them better. _Orphan Black_ is still using split-screen, it’s just a more sophisticated version (and more often is over-the-shoulder of a double). Lifting people off the ground is done with cable supports which can be digitally removed (they no longer have to be dangerously thin to be hidden from TV resolution). Flashing lights and reaction shots still help sell a big explosion, reducing the money shot to only a couple of seconds of screen time. They still use breakable “candy” glass and rubber prop weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/8 "2016-08-22T07:30:52Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I remember hearing, I think in one of the DVD special features, that during the shooting of _The Princess Bride_ Andre the Giant was suffering from back problems serious enough that he could not easily carry Robin Wright even though she was quite slim and he was…a giant. IIRC for some scenes she was actually being supported by the sort of harness they use for “flying” effects. Yeah, that was after his wrestling career. Andre really had a messed up back in the latter part of his life. I’ve heard that, too. Really, if the person doing the carrying has issues a harness like that would not only help them, but keep the person carried from being injured if dropped. It’s my impression that wire-work has improved over the years. Don’t know if it’s better technology, or some sort of training for the actors, or both, or what, but that sort of scene seems to have improved over time and not just with hiding the wires. Not sure if I’m conveying what I mean here well, but it seems less obvious where the support points are. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/9 "2016-08-22T13:43:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Patch** : > > I can’t see using clay or putty. The stuff is too likely to tear or collapse under its own weight, plus, it’s going to be malleable where the actor grabs it. I can see using a rubber or foam-coated thin piece of metal. What it’s “likely” to do isn’t too big a deal. If one take doesn’t work right, you just re-do it until it does. And if the actor does leave fingerprints, well, first of all, you’re probably not even showing the bars after they let go, and second, even if you do, that just proves how strong they were. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/10 "2016-08-22T13:57:32Z")
I’m guessing there are probably multiple approaches for some of these things. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/11 "2016-08-22T22:22:01Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > But when the bad guys ran out of bullets and threw the gun at him, Superman ducked. 😛 That only happened in one episode: _The Mind Machine_, though the scene was replayed in a montage of clips in a later episode, _Crime Wave_. FWIW, if you freeze the scene you can see that it was not George Reeves that ducked, but his stunt double. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/12 "2016-08-23T00:59:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yeah, that was after his wrestling career. Andre really had a messed up back in the latter part of his life. I’ve heard that, too. > > Really, if the person doing the carrying has issues a harness like that would not only help them, but keep the person carried from being injured if dropped. > > It’s my impression that wire-work has improved over the years. Don’t know if it’s better technology, or some sort of training for the actors, or both, or what, but that sort of scene seems to have improved over time and not just with hiding the wires. Not sure if I’m conveying what I mean here well, but it seems less obvious where the support points are. Not if Keanu Reeves grabs the cables to help him flip over as he jumps off the tracks in _The Matrix_. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/13 "2016-08-23T08:59:10Z")
Every rule has exceptions, right? ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/14 "2016-08-24T23:34:32Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > According to IMDB, the introduction of the Hulk (the 1970s version) showed Lou Ferrigno picking up a car. There was supposed to be a cable helping Lou pick up the car, but the cable broke. It was 4 am, Lou was cold and tired from doing a lot of filming, so rather than wait for the special effects guys to fix the cable, the tired and frustrated Lou just lifted the car himself. To be fair, he was a world class body builder and was a pretty strong guy. Was? He still is, he’s maintained an astonishing physique over the years. Here he is on the cover of a body building magazine a few months ago. [![](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f7/87/b6/f787b6247a8c208607b1ecf15407c95a.jpg) ](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f7/87/b6/f787b6247a8c208607b1ecf15407c95a.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/15 "2016-08-24T23:36:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Andre really had a messed up back in the latter part of his life. In his last days with the WWF, he needed crutches to walk. (Obviously he wasn’t wrestling any more at that point he was managing the Bushwhackers for some reason) [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/e0znx1bkaXg/hqdefault.jpg](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/e0znx1bkaXg/hqdefault.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-practical-vs-cgi-fx/763582/16 "2016-08-24T23:53:58Z")
Still would like to have something definitive on how they did the bendable gun barrels and jail house bars. Anyone know anything definite?