# Questions about Purposed Gun Control Laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450 "2015-06-25T17:12:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![katpohl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b782af/32.png) [@katpohl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/katpohl)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/1 "2015-06-25T17:12:12Z")
My apologies , I will try again and this time try to sound less like a hick . I was raised and still live on the family cattle ranch and have been around guns all my life . None of our fire arms have ever been used to commit any crime , Every gun is legally registered to the family member who bought it . None of us that live and or work here are felons. Why do states even bother having a law on the books saying that a convicted felon can not own a fire arm, if that law can not be enforced and the felon can not be prosecuted when he or she is caught with an unregistered fire arm ?. When a politicain talks about taking guns away from criminals and off the streets by passing stircter gun laws and when the purposed gun control laws are published by the media . They are stricter and generally aimed mostly at the legally registered gun owners .Isn’t the the politican counting on those people who are easily influenced by peers/media to buy into the theroy that anyone who rebels against stricter gun control laws must be criminals ? ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/2 "2015-06-25T17:18:20Z")
What makes you think that a felon can’t be prosecuted for being in possession of a firearm, unregistered or otherwise? To my knowledge such prosecutions happen regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/3 "2015-06-25T17:19:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do states even bother having a law on the books saying that a convicted felon can not own a fire arm, if that law can not be enforced and the felon can not be prosecuted when he or she is caught with an unregistered fire arm ?. So they can throw the freakin’ book at him when they catch him with it. The proposed laws I’ve heard of, and I have no cite, are to move away from the laws that allow a private citizen to sell guns without a background check, and to require all licensed gun dealers to run a background check. This would only impact people who wanted to buy guns without having to pass a background check, and people who wanted to sell their guns to somebody other than a gun dealer. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/4 "2015-06-25T18:01:25Z")
Is that supposed to be “Purposed” in the title, or “Proposed”? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/5 "2015-06-25T18:02:10Z")
Having served on a jury trial where one of the charges was possession of a firearm by someone who wasn’t supposed to possess a firearm, I can tell you with absolute certainty that a felon can be prosecuted when he gets caught with a firearm. It’s difficult to address political fear mongering within the confines of GQ. That last bit of your question might be better suited to IMHO or GD. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/6 "2015-06-25T18:04:11Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > What makes you think that a felon can’t be prosecuted for being in possession of a firearm, unregistered or otherwise? To my knowledge such prosecutions happen regularly. According to wikipedia, felons can be prosecuted for possessing a firearm [Criminal possession of a weapon - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felon_in_possession_of_a_firearm) but they can’t be prosecuted for failure to register the firearm because in 1968 SCOTUS ruled that violates 5th Amendment protection against self-incrimination. [Haynes v. United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haynes_v._United_States) Perhaps this is what is confusing katpohl. Someone said “Hey, you know those gun laws are unenforceable” but they didn’t explain the subtle difference between gun possession laws (which ARE enforceable) and gun registration laws (which are NOT enforceable if it’s illegal for you to possess the firearm in the first place). If you’re a felon and you have a firearm, when you get caught they definitely CAN book for you illegal possession but they can’t also get you for failure to register it. Many people have pondered the irony of this situation by saying the felons are exempt from the registration law. But that doesn’t make it legal for felons to possess a firearm in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/7 "2015-06-25T19:00:35Z")
As a wise, old country doctor once put it, “How can you get a permit to do a danged illegal thing?” ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/8 "2015-06-25T19:05:14Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > The proposed laws I’ve heard of, and I have no cite, are to move away from the laws that allow a private citizen to sell guns without a background check, and to require all licensed gun dealers to run a background check. All gun dealers are already required to run a background check. The federal 4473 form at least. Individual states may have additional requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/9 "2015-06-25T19:08:11Z")
All righty, then! One down. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/10 "2015-06-25T19:12:03Z")
Speeding is still against the law, even though the speed limits are ignored widely. Using the same argument of unenforceability, should speed laws be eliminated? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/11 "2015-06-25T20:28:22Z")
> [@katpohl](#): > > Every gun is legally registered to the family member who bought it . Are all of you in New Mexico? Then no, they are not registered, as NM does not require this, same as most states. If purchased through NICS, there was a paper trail at one point, but there is no list of every owner and police do not know if you own any firearms or how many. > [@](#): > > Why do states even bother having a law on the books saying that a convicted felon can not own a fire arm, if that law can not be enforced and the felon can not be prosecuted when he or she is caught with an unregistered fire arm ?. It can and they are. > [@](#): > > Isn’t the the politican counting on those people who are easily influenced by peers/media to buy into the theroy that anyone who rebels against stricter gun control laws must be criminals ? No real GQ answer to this. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/12 "2015-06-25T21:33:42Z")
Also keep in mind the typical politician “there oughta be a law!” mentality. Politicians make hay by pointing to the new laws they pass, not by actually enforcing laws - police do that, it doesn’t create headlines or news photos with the politician’s name in it. So you will see more and more laws piled on when the simple solution is to enforce the laws already on the books. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/13 "2015-06-25T21:56:06Z")
> [@katpohl](#): > > Every gun is legally registered to the family member who bought it . What process was involved with legally registering the guns? Was it difficult? How much did it cost? I am truly curious, not being a registered gun owner myself. > [@](#): > > I…have been around guns all my life . Have you ever sold any of those guns? Who did you sell them to? Did you have to do anything to help the buyer legally register the guns? > [@](#): > > None of us that live and or work here are felons. If that wasn’t true (i.e. somebody who lived or worked there was a felon) would it change your opinion on their right to own guns? > [@](#): > > When a politicain talks about taking guns away from criminals and off the streets by passing stircter gun laws and when the purposed gun control laws are published by the media . They are stricter and generally aimed mostly at the legally registered gun owners . Can you give an example of such gun laws, and explain how they are “generally aimed mostly at the legally registered gun owners”? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/14 "2015-06-25T22:38:20Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > What process was involved with legally registering the guns? Was it difficult? How much did it cost? I am truly curious, not being a registered gun owner myself. As I said above, if the OP’s family is all in NM, this process is easy, because it is impossible. 🙂 These are the states that have registration requirements: [Gun control website list](http://smartgunlaws.org/registration-of-firearms-policy-summary/) (scroll down) [Pro-gun website map](http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=162), also shows local-specific laws in Las Vegas, Chicago, NYC, and Lincoln (or Omaha?). IIRC that might be gone in Las Vegas, and current records will be destroyed. Generally you have to pay a varying fee and report make, model, caliber, serial numbers, etc. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/15 "2015-06-25T22:47:32Z")
There is no gun registration in the USA at the federal level. Some states have registration. Some for all guns, some only for handguns. My state, Missouri has neither. Illinois has a Firearms Owner Identification Card (FOID) but that only allows you to buy guns and ammo, it doesn’t identify any guns you own. Buying from a dealer, holder of an FFL, you fill out a 4473 form. This is used for the background check. The feds are only told, hand gun, long gun, or “other”. No make/model, or serial numbers involved. They actually have to start at the manufacturer and work through the distribution chain to the selling dealer to find out who owns what. At the dealer they have to go through his paper forms. Some large dealers such as Cabela’s and Bass Pro have gone to a computerized 4473 firm and electronic submittal, but the actual gun information is not submitted. If your particular state has registration there will be additional records involved. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/16 "2015-06-25T22:51:43Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > also shows local-specific laws in Las Vegas, Chicago, NYC, and Lincoln (or Omaha?). IIRC that might be gone in Las Vegas, and current records will be destroyed. Sorry, I should say that in at least of some of these cases, it is not city law but county law, e.g. Clark County including LV, and Chicago/Cook County may not have it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/17 "2015-06-25T22:56:57Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > As I said above, if the OP’s family is all in NM, this process is easy, because it is impossible. 🙂 I did see your post; I don’t want you to think that I ignored it. Thanks. I was going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that there was some process (which he has interpreted as “registration”) that he went through, which is why I asked the question. It sounds to me like the OP believes that the laws respecting gun ownership are onerous and unfair to responsible gun owners. I hope he can explain what those laws say, what they do, and what practical effects it has had on his gun ownership. [QUOTE=GaryM] There is no gun registration in the USA at the federal level. Some states have registration. Some for all guns, some only for handguns. My state, Missouri has neither. Illinois has a Firearms Owner Identification Card (FOID) but that only allows you to buy guns and ammo, it doesn’t identify any guns you own. Buying from a dealer, holder of an FFL, you fill out a 4473 form. This is used for the background check. The feds are only told, hand gun, long gun, or “other”. No make/model, or serial numbers involved. They actually have to start at the manufacturer and work through the distribution chain to the selling dealer to find out who owns what. At the dealer they have to go through his paper forms. Some large dealers such as Cabela’s and Bass Pro have gone to a computerized 4473 firm and electronic submittal, but the actual gun information is not submitted. If your particular state has registration there will be additional records involved. [/QUOTE] Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/18 "2015-06-25T23:37:59Z")
Even thou the OP wasn’t aware of what registration really means and where and who is required, this kind of thread is a great tool to inform the masses on how gun laws work. Great post by MD2000 > [@](#): > > Also keep in mind the typical politician “there oughta be a law!” mentality. Politicians make hay by pointing to the new laws they pass, not by actually enforcing laws - police do that, it doesn’t create headlines or news photos with the politician’s name in it. So you will see more and more laws piled on when the simple solution is to enforce the laws already on the books And the Gun Show Loophole hyperbole! Most firearms sold are by licensed gun dealers, But Many Gun shows do allow a private party to sell his personal firearms at their show and that person can sell in what is called a face to face sale with no background checks of any kind, but this is also legal and done any and every day with personal firearms. One certainly should require a bill of sale when doing any transaction if only to CYA in the event things weren’t on the up & up. Look at Canada and see what the results of total gun control can do. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/19 "2015-06-26T01:04:38Z")
> [@katpohl](#): > > …Why do states even bother having a law on the books saying that a convicted felon can not own a fire arm, if that law can not be enforced and the felon can not be prosecuted when he or she is caught with an unregistered fire arm ?. > > When a politicain talks about taking guns away from criminals and off the streets by passing stircter gun laws and when the purposed gun control laws are published by the media . They are stricter and generally aimed mostly at the legally registered gun owners .Isn’t the the politican counting on those people who are easily influenced by peers/media to buy into the theroy that anyone who rebels against stricter gun control laws must be criminals ? It’s illegal for a felon to own, or carry, a firearm, unless they’ve gone thru whatever process the state requires to restore their pre-felony rights. The SCOTUS has ruled that felons can not be forced to register their firearms. Felons still have 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination. Only law-abiding citizens can be forced to register their firearms. Registration/confiscation laws only apply to citizens in good standing, not crooks or criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450/20 "2015-06-26T01:42:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > It’s illegal for a felon to own, or carry, a firearm, unless they’ve gone thru whatever process the state requires to restore their pre-felony rights. > > The SCOTUS has ruled that felons can not be forced to register their firearms. Felons still have 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination. Only law-abiding citizens can be forced to register their firearms. > > Registration/confiscation laws only apply to citizens in good standing, not crooks or criminals. By “felon”, are you referring to a person with a felony record, or someone actually serving a felony? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-purposed-gun-control-laws/723450.md?page=2)