Questions about solar voltaic and sustainable living

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of good help. I have been busy with the last exam and studying for the final in my Statistics class and trying to negotiate for the darn property so I haven’t had time to check back here. Buying property is a pain in the ass, and, um, there are some (certainly not all or even very many) real estate agents that are a bunch of um, jerks (ok mods? I would pit, but better things to do…), but that is OT :wink:

This is a huge improvement over the cost of solar panels from just 10 years ago,

And it seems like every week we hear about some “breakthrough”, but now we have many energy lowering options. You couldn’t get decent compact fluorescent bulbs ten year ago. Appliances have gotten more efficient. We know more about how to design efficient homes. All this gives you more of an edge. Some of what you have to do is actually very simple. Use a clothesline. Rig light switches with sensors so they shut off automatically. Insulate your ducts and pipes. In an office setting I had, we reduced energy use by half, and that was in existing construction. Our biggest problem? The building had never needed heat in the winter and only had A/C. People were complaining of the cold. In a building in Burbank, CA. If we had stayed there, we could have solved that one too, with more insulation.

Lancaster/EAFB area? What about skinheads & air force brats with nothing better to do than throw rocks? *
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But what kind of windstorms do they have up there in the high desert? You’ll want to assess the weather for it’s potential to destroy your investment.

Those problems had crossed my mind. I was considering sheltering the panels in a solarium of some kind. They can share the thing with my tomato plants.

I am mainly looking at increasing the efficiency of the panels, both by rotating them to follow the sun as well as supplementing the intensity of the light with reflectors. I understand that directing more than a certain amount of intensity (equvialent to high noon at the equator?) at the panels will overload their rating, but there are a lot of times when the sun’s energy is diminished, whether because it is low in the sky or partially obscured by haze when some form of concentration could be helpful. Some kind of light meter would cut the supplementation in and out as needed.
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This map should show if it’s a good area or not. *

Yah, you’d think. Wind power can be very localized here. If you are below a canyon/pass the wind can be awesome. A mile away, not so much. The map doesn’t really have enough detail to tell much. I do know that one of the largest windmills I have ever seen is in Palmdale. I saw Jay Leno showing off a generator he uses to power his garage. Instead of a traditional windmill it had vertical vanes arranged to spin around. I could see doing this sort of thing with colorful sails on a base that was firmly on the ground. Low tech, fun, and something to supplement the solar that we could build ourselves.

*Get yourself a steam engine *

Yes, I have found some websites about this. Thanks, this might actually be useful. I had a cockamamie scheme to use purified grey water passed through a very simple solar collector to create steam that would drive some kind of turbine, then recondense it to use in a water feature then finally to grow veggies. The steam engine looks more practical, but I wonder about the maintainability of the moving parts. We might not get much energy there, due to limited water availability, but it will boil the water as a final purification step. One thing that is getting scarce all over California is water. Using it four or five times appeals to me.

The thing is, yes solar has a big upfront, I realize that, but if you are designing a very efficient house from the start, the amount of energy you actually need to run it can be minimized. Out in the desert the problem is heat and cold. It can get below freezing on nights when the days aren’t exactly warm either. This can be solved with passive solar.

No, my big problem is what do I do when it is 110 degrees out? I likes me my a/c. I am thinking a REALLY well insulated house, perhaps built partially underground and surrounded by berms made from the excavate, will let me keep cool in August without needing too many btu’s on the unit. Digging isn’t expensive in the high desert. Drive down any back road and pretty soon you will run across a “Man with Backhoe”, who will dig you out for cheap.

This is my biggest concern really. The property I am looking at has power on site, so on those days I may just have to suck it up and buy some on the worst days, but I am hoping that the synergistic effect of all the various design features will put me over the top even on a fairly hot day.

I mean, just think of the waste heat that is produced in the average home. In winter, no biggie, the more heat the merrier, but in summer… Just ducting all that to the outside atmosphere on hot days saves you a bundle, but it is something you have do design into the house. Put the home entertainment system behind a glass panel, seal off the coils of the refrigerator. Then a simple butterfly valve can decide whether all that heat goes up a stack, or into the ventilation system.

Thanks again for the pointers, and if anyone has more info on my main questions, can I concentrate light on the panels, and about longevity, thanks for that.

A friend of mine has been doing a project like that, but in a vastly different environment (Wisconsin). They have a website with archive photographs of the project, www.coldcrossing.com, pretty fascinating.

The site used to have links to all kinds of sustainable construction / living info, but I don’t see them now, not sure why.

An air well can help with the water issue. (They work even in the desert.)

An Earthship might be the way to go, as you wouldn’t have to worry about it get too hot, I don’t think.

Are you saying that in order to pay for themselves, the solar panels must generate actual income equivalent to their cost? That’s absurd. Even if you never sell any electricity back to the grid at all, they can still pay for themselves if they generate enough electricity to supply your house, and you would otherwise have paid for that electricity from a supplier.

Well, the OP did say that he wanted to generate enough income from selling power to pay for water and property taxes.

I did actually forget that bit, but still, engineer_comp_geek’s post appears to be saying that solar panels are a losing bet whatever you do.

I know some people who live in one of those, and a bunch more who are planning to. It dosn’t get too hot or too cold. The massively-thick walls, inside the building’s insulation, ensure that the temperature does not change quickly. It’s astonishing to feel how comfortable the place is, without a furnace, even when you come in from -35 degree cold.

Now, the design does have to be customised to your local climate and latitude. In a warmer climate like California, there would not be as much emphasis on windows for sunlight collection; as the average temperature rose, you’d start to face away from the sun and add shady overhangs. You still keep the mass of the walls inside the insulation; you just connect it to the coolness of the earth. Check your average ground tremperature as well.

(Incidentally, you don’t need to build them using Reynolds’ rammed-earth-in-tire technique; that just provides a way to use unskilled labour while sequestering carbon. :slight_smile: You don’t even need to use rammed earth. Concrete or masonry walls would work as well; you just need to check the thickness to ensure the same amount of thermal mass.)

Another low cost/energy efficient building method is straw bale construction. Lots of states have building codes for this style of construction and it has the advantage of being not only dirt cheap but friendly to first time builders as well. Basically, straw bales are stacked brick style then covered in chicken wire. A stucco layer is troweled over the wire. The walls end up being almost two feet thick, the insulation is fabulous and the things are pretty much fireproof as well–always a good thing in hot, dry climates. I’ve given some serious consideration to using straw bale if/when I build an extension onto my itty bitty house.

I’d also love to go PV but this IS Oregon after all… Why can’t we generate electricity from raindrops, dammit?

Straw bale and thermal mass go well together; you just end up with really thick walls.

You do. It’s called “hydroelectricity”. :slight_smile: