# Questions about the 9/11 rubble **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 15, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250 "2022-06-15T17:49:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/1 "2022-06-15T17:49:24Z")
I know some of the rubble has been preserved as relics. Another portion was painstakingly examined for years by NYC medical examiners for evidence at the smallest level for human remains (a sacred undertaking, in my view). But for the vast majority of the rubble, I am wondering 1. What has been done with it? 2. How was the selection made during the excavation for what would be sent to the medical examiners? Following, tl;dr: some personal background for this specfic OP: At the time I lived a few miles from the WTC, and watched it burn and fall. Like for so many, my revulsion, literally physical at the time, lasted. My SIL was wounded; family friend killed; close friend/neighbor, a young man in rescue and excavation, in agony for years, now in hospice, for Word Trade Center Syndrome/polymyositis. I avoided going to the area until this year, and was struck that every square inch on the streets and surfaces of so many buildings were white with dust which undoubtedly was laden with microscopic human remains. As a minor factor, the housing complex where I live was built on landfill partially made up of rubble from a British city bombed in WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/2 "2022-06-15T18:47:37Z")
IIRC, the debris (over 100,000 tons) went to Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island. A lot of the steel was recycled. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/3 "2022-06-15T19:51:24Z")
Thanks. What a horrible irony of name. At least the steel wasn’t recycled and sold to a military enemy killing our soldiers. ( e. e. cummings poem title can’t remember…) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/4 "2022-06-15T19:58:06Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > At least the steel wasn’t recycled and sold to a military enemy killing our soldiers. This seems like an oddly specific thing to be potentially outraged about. Are our soldiers routinely endangered by our steel recycling policy? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/5 "2022-06-15T20:05:44Z")
The bow of the USS New York was forged from reclaimed steel from the twin towers. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/6 "2022-06-15T20:47:42Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Are our soldiers routinely endangered by our steel recycling policy? I doubt they are currently, but didn’t we sell a lot of scrap steel to Japan in the 1920s and 1930s, which helped them build up their military prior to WWII (as Japan has no iron mines, IIRC)? At least I kinda remember one of my high school teachers saying something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/7 "2022-06-15T21:01:13Z")
plato told him:he couldn’t believe it(jesus told him;he wouldn’t believe it)lao tsze certainly told him,and general (yes mam) sherman; and even (believe it or not)you told him:i told him;we told him (he didn’t believe it,no sir)it took a nipponized bit of the old sixth avenue el;in the top of his head:to tell him ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/8 "2022-06-15T22:07:43Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > tsze > certainly told > him,and general > (yes > > mam) > sherman; > and even > (believe it > or > > not)you > told him:i told > him;we told him > (he didn’t believe it,no > > sir)it took > a nipponized bit of > the old sixth > > avenue > el;in the top of his head:to tell > > him That was hard to decipher so I offer an edited version: Tsze certainly told him, and General (yes mam) Sherman; and even (believe it or not) you told him: I told him; We told him (he didn’t believe it, no sir) It took a nipponized bit of the old Sixth Avenue El; in the top of his head: to tell him ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/9 "2022-06-15T23:25:23Z")
At least the version I remember was that the steel we (America) used for our battleships and other ships that won World War 2 wound up being sold as scrap for pennies and that was then sold to Japan which then used that steel to make cars and destroy our auto industry in the 70s and 80s. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/10 "2022-06-15T23:37:37Z")
9/11 Memorial at Camp Lejeune \< Jacksonville, NC: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.7471379,-77.4147949&z=17&output=embed&dg=ntvb Views of dozens of other memorials made from structural members: [9/11 memorial steel beams - Bing images](https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=9%2f11+memorial+steel+beams&qpvt=9%2f11+memorial+steel+beams&form=IGRE&first=1&tsc=ImageHoverTitle) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/11 "2022-06-16T06:49:58Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > At least the version I remember was that the steel we (America) used for our battleships and other ships that won World War 2 wound up being sold as scrap for pennies and that was then sold to Japan which then used that steel to make cars and destroy our auto industry in the 70s and 80s. I don’t think this is very accurate. - The US only built 2 battleships during WWII. (It started for us at Pearl Harbor, which showed how useless battleships now were.) They did complete 4 that were already under construction. The WWII scrap ships would have been mostly destroyers & aircraft carriers. - The steel used in warships, with nickel and chromium added to make hardened armor plate, isn’t the kind of steel used in cars. Too expensive, for one thing. - Cars in that period were using a lot of aluminum (and even plastic, eventually) to replace the steel used in older cars. - The US auto industry destroyed itself by failing to build the small, efficient, reliable cars that buyers wanted, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/12 "2022-06-16T12:08:42Z")
The old term I heard was selling battleships [or other naval vessels] to be made into razorblades. Is the steel more suitable for this than car bodies? [I expect its not a literally accurate description of naval salvage, but lets go with it]. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/13 "2022-06-16T12:22:38Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > What a horrible irony of name. Likely the “kills” in the name means a creek, like in Catskills or Peekskill. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/14 "2022-06-16T14:36:20Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Likely the “kills” in the name means a creek, like in Catskills or Peekskill. This. > **[Fresh Kills](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_Kills)** > > Fresh Kills (from the Middle Dutch word kille, meaning "riverbed" or "water channel") is a stream and freshwater estuary in the western portion of the borough of Staten Island in New York City, United States. It is the site of the Fresh Kills Landfill, formerly New York City's principal landfill. > The watershed of the Fresh Kills drains much of the wet lowlands of the western portion of the island and flows into the Arthur Kill around the Isle of Meadows. Its co-tributaries include the Rahway R... ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/15 "2022-06-16T14:47:45Z")
Exactly ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/16 "2022-06-16T15:00:29Z")
My wife and I have visited 15 9/11 memorials here in the Northwest. The closest in in front of the city hall where I live and there are 4 more within 10 miles. The last was in the small town of Cashmere, Washington last month. We are always on the lookout for them when we travel. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/17 "2022-06-16T15:23:37Z")
Of course it’s not accurate. It’s a plausible-sounding piece of what amounted to propaganda at the time- sort of a “we did this to ourselves- it’s time to start looking out for our own” kind of thing. Which is ridiculous; steel, like just about all other industrial raw materials, is sold as a commodity. If the Japanese did buy scrap steel from scrapped US WWII naval vessels, it was on the open market as scrap steel, not as part of some sort of nefarious dealings to benefit the Japanese at the expense of our valiant naval ships and our own economy. > [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > The US only built 2 battleships during WWII. (It started for us at Pearl Harbor, which showed how useless battleships now were.) They did complete 4 that were already under construction. The WWII scrap ships would have been mostly destroyers & aircraft carriers. “Battleship” is just a shorthand for US naval ships. After the war, there were lots of ships of all kinds being scrapped- quite a few actual battleships were scrapped right around 1960 along with a LOT of other old Navy ships. Seems like 1959-1960 was the primary time for that. I would think the whole razor blade thing is more that razor blades are something cheap and disposable, and implying that selling a ship for “razor blades” is somehow a waste or a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/18 "2022-06-16T15:30:03Z")
Thank you–this is quite moving. Confronting an actual artifact of the horror still repels me a little, though; my experience is limited to helping undress and clean off the thick film of white from my SIL when she came barefoot after the two mile walk. The nature of memorials to mass tragedy is complicated, as any number of monographs on Holocaust museology can attest. Although light years away, thank God, my Aunt’s experience when I toured the Washington Holocaust Museum and Memorial with her stays with me: we passed in front of a cattle car that had been used in one of the innumerable trains to Auschwitz. I paused to look closer, and she continued to pass through the room. Why?–“I don’t need to see it again.” Indeed, a tour of the exhibit, or any part of it, surely was not sought out by my Aunt. At the time we were attending a function given for my father (her brother), a founding director of the museum. ---
**Author:** ![Snipe70e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/51bf81/32.png) [@Snipe70e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snipe70e)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/19 "2022-06-16T16:34:59Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > The US auto industry destroyed itself by failing to build the small, efficient, reliable cars that buyers wanted, IMHO. I could not agree with you more. Detroit refused to believe that Americans wanted an economy car. Ford was offered the VW plant in Germany and made the comment along the lines of that there was nothing there worth salvaging, they will will not sell. Smaller cars had smaller profit per unit. When Detroit turned out a smaller car sthey could not leave i t alone had to make it bigger. 1964 Ford Mustang was introduced as a low cost inexpensive car. And it sold more that Ford had expected. But they could not let it alone. The Mustang grew into a muscle car. I read that there were so many options that could be mix and matched there were over 1000 ways the car could be ordered. They forgot what old Henery Ford knew and said, keep it simple and inexpensive and it will sell. VW 1 engine, 5 body stiles, few options, and only a few colors. There were other Detroit economy cars introduced but in a few years they were enlarged to mid or full sized cars. About the only small American cars that I can remember that did not grow up were the Chevy Vega or the AMC Gremlin And I think we all know how well those cars were built. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250/20 "2022-06-16T19:50:23Z")
> [@Snipe70e](#): > > Detroit refused to believe that Americans wanted an economy car. And to add to that, there was also an assumption that a small car has to be a cheap car (admittedly VW may have started that trend by marketing the Beetle as cheap, basic transportation). The joke was that Americans by their cars by the pound. So when Detroit did make a small car, they made crap like the Pinto and the Chevette. Then the Japanese showed that people will pay a premium for a _good_ small car. > [@Snipe70e](#): > > 1964 Ford Mustang was introduced as a low cost inexpensive car. And it sold more that Ford had expected. But they could not let it alone. The Mustang grew into a muscle car. Ironically, the 1974-78 Mustang II is probably the most hated Mustang today. But really it was a return to the original formula of building an inexpensive, somewhat sporty car based on economy car underpinnings. As I understand it was pretty well received at the time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-about-the-9-11-rubble/966250.md?page=2)