# Questions for Catholics re: The Lord's Prayer **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 22, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964 "2009-02-22T17:57:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/1 "2009-02-22T17:57:24Z")
I just attended my first Catholic mass yesterday (a funeral) and the reception lunch afterwards. Something I, and the other protestants in the room, are curious about is the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer. There were several times it was said, and without fail the final line “for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever” was omitted. Pretty simple question. Why? I didn’t feel like it was the appropriate occasion to ask while there. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/2 "2009-02-22T18:01:13Z")
The little tag at the end may not have been in the original text, so many translations and churches omit it. [Read Here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord%27s_Prayer#.22For_thine_is_the_kingdom.2C_and_the_power.2C_and_the_glory.2C_for_ever_and_ever._Amen_.22) ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/3 "2009-02-22T18:05:00Z")
Asked and answered in record time. Thanks, **Mahaloth**. Somehow I thought it would be more complicated than that. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/4 "2009-02-22T19:49:22Z")
It’s not just Roman Catholics. The Protestant _Book of Common Prayer_ sometimes includes and sometimes omits “For thine is the kingdom… for ever and ever”. My experience as a chorister is my cite. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RedRosesForMe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/91b2a8/32.png) [@RedRosesForMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRosesForMe)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/5 "2009-02-22T20:00:10Z")
I remember saying it at Mass, and after the last official Catholic line, the priest would say a few words about what, I don’t remember, and then we’d finish with “the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours for ever and ever. Amen” Any other Catholics remember this? ---
**Author:** ![Julius\_Henry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@Julius\_Henry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Julius_Henry)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/6 "2009-02-22T20:05:40Z")
> [@RedRosesForMe](#): > > I remember saying it at Mass, and after the last official Catholic line, the priest would say a few words about what, I don’t remember, and then we’d finish with “the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours for ever and ever. Amen” > > Any other Catholics remember this? That was true back in the '70s, the last time I attended mass. Can’t say about now, though. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/7 "2009-02-22T20:08:05Z")
Well, look at the original text of the Gospel of Luke, Chapter 11. That’s where the Lord’s Prayer comes from. Do you see that last line? This is one instance where the Catholics are the fundamentalists, sticking to Scripture, while the Protestants are adding their own text! ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/8 "2009-02-22T21:23:50Z")
> [@RedRosesForMe](#): > > I remember saying it at Mass, and after the last official Catholic line, the priest would say a few words about what, I don’t remember, and then we’d finish with “the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours for ever and ever. Amen” > > Any other Catholics remember this? From the current order of mass: > [@](#): > > COMMUNION RITE > > Lord’s Prayer: > > Priest: Let us pray with confidence to the Father in the words our Savior gave us. > or Jesus taught us to call God our Father, and so we have the courage to say: > or Let us ask our Father to forgive our sins and to bring us to forgive those who sin against us. > or Let us pray for the coming of the kingdom as Jesus taught us. > > All: Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; > thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. > Give us this day our daily bread; > and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; > and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. > > Priest: Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ. > All: For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/9 "2009-02-22T23:24:01Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > I just attended my first Catholic mass yesterday (a funeral) and the reception lunch afterwards. Something I, and the other protestants in the room, are curious about is the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer. There were several times it was said, and without fail the final line “for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever” was omitted. > > Pretty simple question. Why? > > I didn’t feel like it was the appropriate occasion to ask while there. Huh. Every Catholic Church I’ve gone to in my life has used that line. And I’m Catholic, and I’ve been to a fair number of churches. I went to a new one this morning and, yup, the line was there. And the Lord’s Prayer is said only once during Mass (though you mentioned a reception as well, so I assume it was said there as well). ETA: Oh, you’re talking about a funeral. The order of Mass might be a bit different, with the prayer being said multiple times. Regardless, the Priest has _some_ say in how the mass is performed. Perhaps it’s just not a line he cared for? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/10 "2009-02-22T23:33:58Z")
AFAIK, every Western Latin Mass uses the line in the mentioned format and it’s not celebrant’s choice. But then again, Funeral Masses do change the order of things; or else may be that you were at a Catholic _Funeral Service,_ as opposed to the full-blown Mass. But it is true that for most Catholics the version with the closing call-and-response doxology is heard only in formal Mass, and when it is used in “lay” prayer, for instance after each decade of a Rosary, it is NOT included. Apparently at some point in between the codification of the Gospels and the Reformation, some confusion arose as to whether that line was part of the original scripture, or inserted afterwards by some scribe, so it sort of comes and goes in the various translations. It’s sort of the way that “so help me God” comes to be expected to be part of official civil oaths. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/11 "2009-02-22T23:53:01Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > AFAIK, every Western Latin Mass uses the line in the mentioned format and it’s not celebrant’s choice. But then again, Funeral Masses do change the order of things; or else may be that you were at a Catholic _Funeral Service,_ as opposed to the full-blown Mass. You’re probably (like, 99.9% probably) right, but I do remember one memorable service where the Priest forgot, of all things, the Apostles Creed. In his defense, he was _very_ young and it could’ve been his first Mass. ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/12 "2009-02-23T00:57:50Z")
I am a Catholic, however I am not a Roman Catholic. I was brought up in the RCC, and therefore remember the lords prayer as you call it well. I would wonder why this wasn’t recited during service in the Christian(Catholic) Missionary Alliance Church. Then at 0200hrs one night in the prayer room while praying and struggling with this prayer as you say,:smack::smack::smack: I get it, while reading the Gospel of Luke, Chapter 11, This is an “Outline of how to pray to the father” Not a prayer in itself. > [@](#): > > Father in Heaven, Thank you for everything I have and all you have done for me and my family. We do everything to Glorify you Father, for you alone are the holy one. Thank you for the giving of your one and only son Jesus who died for us and is risen up to heaven and seated at your right hand. > Father, I am a sinner, and confess the transgressions I have done. I try to lead a life that is pleasing to you father, but we are sinners and fall so many times in thought word and deed. > Father please give me the courage to help lead others to you through your son, our savior. Lord as I interact with those on the internet, may I do so with love for them even when it is so hard to do that at times when such terrible words are used to rebuke you and your son. Father I know that it is the evil one who dominates these forums but that only makes the work here more important. Father please help we through your Holy Spirit as I pray for all the members and guests who come to this forum that can be so enjoyable and knowledgeable. > Please Lord protect us from the evil one as we recreate here, I pray this to you Father through your son our Savior Jesus, Amen I put the quote tags around this sample of how I pray the prayers Jesus instructed us to pray in Luke chapter 11 Always for the Lord, Greg ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/13 "2009-02-23T01:02:49Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > I just attended my first Catholic mass yesterday (a funeral) and the reception lunch afterwards. Something I, and the other protestants in the room, are curious about is the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer. There were several times it was said, and without fail the final line “for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever” was omitted. > > Pretty simple question. Why? > > I didn’t feel like it was the appropriate occasion to ask while there. Not having read any other posts but the OP… I was brought up Catholic. Once, in about 5th grade, we had a non-catholic sudent. She was scheduled to read the lord’s prayer. Before she read it, the nun teacher explained that the extra words at the end were just something extra that some non-catholics add. In other words, I guess catholics don’t say it. I know I never did… Joe ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/14 "2009-02-23T01:03:09Z")
I’m not sure whether they called it a funeral service or a mass. It was fairly long…longer than any protestant funeral I’ve ever been to. They did several call-and-respond prayers (one I recall had the people refrain “Lord, hear our prayer.”) They also did the holy water, incense, communion, etc. What’s interesting is that in the program, the Lord’s prayer was arranged much as **RedRosesForMe** remembers, with the people reciting with the priest until the last part, where there were, IIRC, three or so sentences that the priest was supposed to say, then the people finished the “for thine is…” line. However, it was omitted entirely. Got to “but deliver us from evil” and then on to the next part of the program. Regardless, an interesting discussion. Thanks for the input everyone! ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/15 "2009-02-23T01:05:11Z")
The doxology is included in the Catholic mass, but as ponted out above it comes a short time after the Lord’s prayer, with an intervening prayer by the priest, and it is not regarded as part of the Lord’s Prayer; i.e. we don’t think we’re saying the Lord’s Prayer with an interruption by the priest, we think we’re finishing the Lord’s Prayer, then the priest says a prayer, then we say a doxology. In the Catholic tradition the doxology is not used in conjunction with the Lord’s prayer in any context outside mass. I was quite surprised, in my late teens, to discover that Protestants appended it directly to the Lord’s Prayer, and regarded it as part of the Lord’s Prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/16 "2009-02-23T01:05:34Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Huh. Every Catholic Church I’ve gone to in my life has used that line. And I’m Catholic, and I’ve been to a fair number of churches. I went to a new one this morning and, yup, the line was there. And the Lord’s Prayer is said only once during Mass (though you mentioned a reception as well, so I assume it was said there as well). > > ETA: Oh, you’re talking about a funeral. The order of Mass might be a bit different, with the prayer being said multiple times. Well, I dunno. In no mass ceremonies, nor in class recitations, did I ever hear the line in question. Catholic church/school in NJ, from birth (73) until about 1989, when I Atheized. Joe ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/17 "2009-02-23T01:07:57Z")
I never heard it from 65 to around 82 as a Catholic. I was at a Catholic wedding in June and they left it off and my wife asked me why it was not part of the LP. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/18 "2009-02-23T01:12:34Z")
> [@Gbro](#): > > I am a Catholic, however I am not a Roman Catholic. > I was brought up in the RCC, and therefore remember the lords prayer as you call it well. > I would wonder why this wasn’t recited during service in the Christian(Catholic) Missionary Alliance Church. > Then at 0200hrs one night in the prayer room while praying and struggling with this prayer as you say,:smack::smack::smack: I get it, while reading the Gospel of Luke, Chapter 11, This is an “Outline of how to pray to the father” Not a prayer in itself. > > I put the quote tags around this sample of how I pray the prayers Jesus instructed us to pray in Luke chapter 11 > > Always for the Lord, > Greg Yes, it’s certainly an example of HOW to pray, not in and of itself something for recitation. However, it’s the only one I ever say word-for-word, not for empty by-rote prayer, but because it is arranged so beautifully. However, you’re quite right that it’s intended as an example of how to pray. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/19 "2009-02-23T01:31:10Z")
This caused a problem for me when I was younger. In my public school they would start by leading us in reciting the Lord’s prayer outloud. The teacher and most of the students were Roman Catholic and ommitted that phrase. I would continue and be looked at oddly. It was either that or not say it and think I was going to hell. That is why I am so anti-school prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964/20 "2009-02-23T02:01:53Z")
Quoth **JohnT** : > [@](#): > > You’re probably (like, 99.9% probably) right, but I do remember one memorable service where the Priest forgot, of all things, the Apostles Creed. First of all, a nitpick, but you mean the Nicene Creed, not the Apostles’ Creed. The Apostles’ Creed is a shorter and less theologically-detailed version which is pretty much only recited as part of the Rosary (by Catholics, at least). But even at that, the Nicene Creed is sometimes replaced by the reiteration of the baptismal vows (especially if there’s a baptism at that particular mass), and I’ve known at least one priest who, for reasons of his own, chooses to omit it (I’ve never gotten around to asking him why). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-catholics-re-the-lords-prayer/486964.md?page=2)